Comments: Owner Says No To Vet Pushing Prozac For Kitty "Depression"
I haven't had a chance to read the NYTimes story yet, but I would never dream of giving my Dandie Dinmont Terriers psychotropic drugs. My male, Riley, is a little nervous about thunder because he was frightened recently by a firecracker. My female, Lucy, is hyper and mischievous. Nickname? Miss Chiff. Were she human, she might be diagnosed as bipolar! :-)
(Now pregnant, her hormones have kicked in and she's calmed down, which I hope lasts.)
However, my previous dog had a lifelong fear of thunder and would shake and hover under the bed or jump into the bathtub before thunder was audible to my human ears. He was the best barometer!
My vet gave me a canine tranquillizer telling me to "give to Murphy one hour before the thunderstorm begins," a directive that was always bewildering.
Weather reporting being the reliable and "exact" science it is, I often had a very mellow dog while the sun shone and the skies were clear and quiet.
Posted by Sandy Naiman at July 14, 2008 10:33 PM
Thanks for the shout out, Philip. Kitty thanks you too.
I left out one thing in the letter- has anyone reading this ever tried to pill a cat? It has to be one of the most unpleasant thing we do for our furry friends.
Who was the genius who thought of giving cats Prozac must not have considered how difficult it is to pill a cat in the first place.
Posted by susan at July 14, 2008 11:26 PM
The vets won't address the withdrawals, they will just add a valium to the mix if the animal goes berserk, and when the pet dies, it will be blamed on the "illness" not the med.
Sound familiar?
Posted by Stephany at July 15, 2008 06:59 AM
Is there a movement to stop Prozac for pets?
That's good!
But I always feel amazed how people are ready to fight for animals rights and takes decades to fight for humans beings.
Jesus!
I'm tired.
I'll have to stop my activities here and on my blog for a while.
Too much problems. Just loosing a blog friend was the last drop of water.
I have to take care of myself.
Keep the good work Philip!
Have strength! And all of you who are here on a regular basis.
All my prayers for you!
Posted by Ana at July 15, 2008 08:57 AM
Philip said,
"This makes me wonder if there is now a feline DSM and a feline Hamilton Depression Scale."
Yup! If your cat hisses, he/she has oppositional conduct disorder.
Posted by AA at July 15, 2008 03:29 PM
I usually have at least two or three dogs here at the Quacker Factory. In 30 years I've had only two dogs with "mental" problems. One became so fearful of thunderstorms she took to jumping out the kitchen window whenever the barometer dropped even slightly. We tried sedating her and it was sooo painful to see. She was still terrified and agitated, but unable to move or cope. It was horrible.
The other dog was a rescue, 12 years old. She had no personality, never barked. She was one of the easiest dogs I've ever taken care of. One morning, four months after she came to live with us, we were startled by a mighty "woof" next to the breakfast table. It was Shannon, looking rather startled herself. We praised her mightily for speaking up.
After that she never shut up. She was a Border collie, the most obdurate creature I have ever known. I loved her to pieces. She had an opinion on everything, would argue with me all the time--and was usually right. We became totally bonded until her death at 15.
I realized once she came out of her shell that she had actually been very depressed. I don't think the woman who'd had her before us was mean to her, but she had not wanted her for a very long time and this was simply more than Shannon could bear.
It's basically pretty unnatural for an animal to be depressed, just as it is for a human child. In my two cases meds did nothing, but love and acceptance cured one dog completely. Most of the time with dogs you can bet they're not getting enough exercise. Dogs do NOT exercise themselves. They'll just flop around most of the time in a fenced yard. Lack of exercise looks a whole lot like depression and/or hyperactivity in a dog.
In me too, come to think of it. I had a visiting psych nurse who got me through one winter by rushing through the paperwork and then hustling me out the door for a WALK. It mystifies me that Medicare is perfectly happy to pay for daily therapy for the rest of my life, something like 180 days of inpatient therapy, endless drug-ya-up psychiatrist visits--none of which have helped. But they won't pay one red cent for someone to get my agoraphobic ass out the door for a walk. I'm actually thinking of paying someone this winter to do that.
Sherry (sorry for the digression there at the end)
Posted by Sherry at July 15, 2008 04:21 PM
I do behavior consults and behavior modification with dogs (agression, fear, etc) (not a vet, just a trainer) and overall Prozac really worries me with dogs (don't know any cats on it). I just have seen some really, really extreme reactions, negative reactions when dogs are on the drug. Behavior can get so much worse, totally unpredictable, any prior indications to biting go out the window, etc. Yes, there are a few dogs that seem to improve on it, at least a foot in the door to start behavior mod and then wean off the drug ASAP, but by in large, it's risky business to me. Yet there are so many, many vets (who have NO clue what the heck they're doing, no behavior training what so ever) prescribing it and assuming 'thats the end of that'. And for those that do go to the vet behaviorist who does have a clue and precscribes it WITH behavior mod and a plan to get the dog off the drug and close monitoring, so many owners slack off on the training and work and just think that the vet will keep filling the script no matter what. It's really horrid, the dog looses in the end. Frustrating and sad.
Posted by katrin at July 15, 2008 07:06 PM
I was just thinking how my cats tolerate my depression so much better than any humans I am in contact with. All they do is let me hug them, and they don't give me any ominous looks or feel that I am too needy. They also don't get sick of me when I don't give them what they want. One of my cats peed on the floor for a brief period after I stopped my meds, and I thought he was picking up on my anxiety. I told a friend about it, and he sent me some stuff about cats' inappropriate elimination, which worked. I had to stop yelling about it and just put him in his catbox, and then praise him when he was in there peeing.
Posted by Sophia at July 16, 2008 01:43 PM
Am I missing something here?..
I thought they tested these drugs on animals before humans? not the other way round...
Anyhow, its all a bit ridiculous really prescribing these drugs for animals, I mean seriously like what if they have issues in their personal lives or are just feeling insecure? if we are going to be prescribing them drugs we should really think about therapy too, the drugs on their own won't solve the animals problems..
Like for example what if we had a dog who felt he just wasn't as good as the other dogs in the neighbor hood, maybe he couldn't chase cats so well and felt inferior? I think bark therapy would be the best option for that situation, the last thing we need though is a rottweiler on an SSRI rampage...
(no I'm not serious here, I am taking the absolute piss, but I did meet a psychiatrist once who was as ferocious as a rapid bulldog when I questioned her links to a certain drug company... she was just short of raising her leg to piss on me... bitch!)
Posted by truthman30 at July 29, 2008 10:47 AM
I came across this discussion via google, as I am looking up treatment options for a cat.
I have been a behaviorally focussed trainer for almost 20 years, and in animal rescue on and off for most of that time. I have handled thousands of dogs, though my rescue work in cats has brought me more recently into contact with several dozen cats by now. I have to say that the comments here are about as limited in scope and information as anything I've ever seen.
I think meds have been drastically over-prescribed, both in human and animal medicine. The leap to diagnosing something that is the "flavor-of-the-month" illness, only to then treat it with a pill is something I have felt very strongly about for the entire time I have been in the training field. And yet, many of the comments here are about as shortsighted as any I've heard from the "throw a pill at it" crowd.
The answer to the problem of over-prescribing is NOT to pretend their use is never justified, nor that it is ever helpful in some cases long term. Once you have laid hands and eyes on an animal that is too frightened to function, let alone to feel any joy or even receive comfort at all, and the full spectrum of pure behavioral mod techniques have been done to death with only barely perceptible results, you might look at psycho-theraputic drugs differently. The placebo effect does not come into play with animals, so when you see drastic improvement, and you see that animal finally relax enough to develop the ability to learn....well, that's real.
In training, it is my ultimate responsibility to set aside my own biases and prejudices and do what is *right for the animal*, not simply what I prefer or what fits my own belief system. Projecting my own rights and wrongs (whether it be to put an animal on meds because it makes ME feel more comfortable, or to withhold meds for that very same reason) on an an animal who may be suffering is plan wrong, IMO.
And I see as much of that in this discussion as I see from those who push drugs.
That was disappointing.
Posted by Jellie at April 7, 2009 07:02 AM