Comments: Bipolar Blood Test? Let The Bloodbath Begin
I heard about this days ago and though I couldn't articulate it as wonderfully as you just did and didn't even attempt to, I share your suspicions and concerns completely! Well done.
Posted by Gianna at February 28, 2008 06:22 AM
Well done, Phillip. Thank you for laying this whole thing out like only you can.
Posted by John at February 28, 2008 07:19 AM
This is an excellent post. I checked out the MSN article and they are doing a poll asking if you think a blood test for mental illness is a good idea. So far out of 10K odd replies, 83% think it is a good idea -- oh my! This all has shades of the universal screening debate. People are so simplistic.
Besides the financing from Lilly the other telling indicator is the ability of such a test to put psychiatry "on a par with other medical specialties". This inferiority complex that psychiatry has with respect to the rest of medicine is one of the driving forces behind the whole "medical model". It's tragic. And finding a gene or set of genes is one thing but knowing whether they are "turned on or off" -- genetic expression -- is another. Furthermore aren't there thousands and thousands of genes? How likely is it that one or a small subset of genes are the ONLY factors implicated in something like a mental illness? There are probably many different subsets and combinations that could contribute to an expression of similar mental and emotional symptoms.
Posted by Sara at February 28, 2008 09:09 AM
Wait, since there is no consensus on what Bipolar Disorder is, how can they know what they're testing for? Look for a test like this combined with mandatory health insurance which is mandatory health care and you'll see everyone who is not rich and connected enough to avoid the test forced on to some psych med or another.
Posted by Sally at February 28, 2008 10:17 AM
C.A.B.F. Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation, which has pharma funding, has touted this in their [once free]parent forums for at least 5 years. All of the "reassuring" board members would tell parents in threads that "you're child is lucky to have this illness when they do, due to the current and new medications", as well as "there will be a cure within the next decade [um--time's running out there], and then there was "soon there will be a SIMPLE blood test that will determine exactly a diagnoses."
I've heard it all there, and they get paid by Pharma.
~
On the note of genetic testing, my daughter did have that done to rule out certain "syndromes" that cause psychosis. Huntington's Disease, things like that. It was an exhaustive measure to take to figure out why she wasn't responding to 800mg of Seroquel in 2006.
Of course, nothing turned up, and the med was removed.
Posted by Stephany at February 28, 2008 10:58 AM
C'mon over (Up? Down?) and you can stay with me. We'll travel the hour trip to Indy and visit Indiana University and Eli Lilly together!
*smiles*
BTS
Posted by Bluetilespook at February 28, 2008 06:42 PM
When I saw this report the other day, I was naturally very worried, for all of the reasons you state so succinctly here.
Two years ago, here in Maine, there was legislation being proposed that those identified as mentally ill would be required to take medication. Fortunately, it did not pass, due to the efforts of many of us asking questions like, "who gets to decide who is mentally ill and for what purpose"?
If there is a blood test, are we not on a slippery slope towards compulsory medication? Like the MSNBC poll shows, you can scare people into thinking this is a good idea. Brave New World indeed.
Posted by Mom in Maine at February 29, 2008 10:10 AM
If there is a blood test manic depression magically become subject to the science and medical profession of neurology, it would no longer be "mental illness", it would be physical illness. Just like what happened to epilepsy, when the scientists could measure it physically.
Posted by mark p.s. at March 1, 2008 01:59 PM
Sir, your ideas are not very open-minded. Bipolar diorder and the like can be antagonized by surrounding influences, but it is due to internal mental instabilities. Essentially, what you are doing is claiming that bipolar disorder does not exist. In a sense, it appears you are stating that such a thing as depression would be equivalent to being sad. For example, a person can trace the reason as to what is making them "sad", but someone that is genuinely "depressed" feels that way for reasons that cannot be explained in everyday terms. Hence, people can be diagnosed with these disorders. People are not diagnosed with usual human emotions, thus making these problems stem from internal causes, rather than external.
When you said this:
"My point is that this work is very much in the initial stages and wouldn't likely affect the real world until, say, 2015 or so."
I must admit I was greatly disturbed. Suppose everyone took such a lethargic stance on issues affecting numbers of people? Everything takes time: so what's the problem with this perhaps not being available for another several years? Just because there was an article about this possible breakthrough doesn't mean all doctors are going to jump up at once and start doing it.
Another thing to think about it the fact that psychiatrists can NOT see inside their patients minds. Even more so, patients sometimes do not explain things as accurately as possible; perhaps they wish to withhold information for certain reasons, perhaps they mistakingly do not give the right information, and sometimes, they do not even know how to explain how they feel. Because of this, some psychiatrists can be overzealous about perscribing medications. Others just write it off as nothing. Everyone is different. But if this new technique proves to be helpful, it can aid doctors and/or psychiatrists in providing the best care for their patients. Just because blood tests may be able to diagnose a patient doesn't mean psychiatry is out of the question. Rather, this way, the patient gets the best of both worlds.
These are just some varying viewpoints I think everyone should take into consideration.
Posted by Somebody at March 6, 2008 08:43 PM
Somebody, I think it's good to see mainstream voices like yours in here. While I disagree with much you say we are both searching for a compassionate way to deal with human suffering.
The thing is I do think depression is being sad. To deny this is truly to deny the feelings of the person experiencing depression. This is not to say I have any right to decide how sad you have a right to be. I feel that it is the people on your side of this, the depression is a medical disease, your feelings of unhappiness are not justifed, side that are cruel. Take for example a parent who loses a child to the war in Iraq. She's devastated and for a few days, weeks, months, or even years depending on your perspective, she's allowed to be misearable. It's considered a normal human response. The folks on your side however assign a time period to her mourning and after a certain amount of time judge her from the outside saying in essence, okay you should be over this if not you are crazy and need to go to the damn doctor and get a pill so you can start acting cheerful. Who are you to judge whose suffering is normal and whose invalid? All suffering is valid. Of course compassion, empathy, patience, support and such are appropriate. Labeling and invalidation are not.
Forget therapy and, if you suffer from depression find a grief support group. Sometimes it takes work to find out what you are grieving. If you've been labeled bipolar in large enough communities there are support groups like emotions anonymous, coda, and alanon, free and anonymous where you can explore whether you have problems with impulse control and choose whether or not to change, privately, and you won't even have to stop taking your drugs if you don't want too.
As for blood tests, are you recommending everyone be given one and that people who test a certain way take psych drugs if they don't want to?
Posted by Sally at March 7, 2008 03:12 AM
"Somebody" said, "what you are doing is claiming that bipolar disorder does not exist."
There is not medical proof it does exist. Doctors are leary of SPECT scans, and other supposed diagnostic tools. The bottom line, is psychiatry does medicalize emotions and life situations far too often, and the blood test will just be a bio marker, much like the questionable SPECT scan. Some doctors may use SPECT for example, for drug choices, some don't believe in it at all.
Most all psychiatrists go by the DSM, and they are the ones that are often not open-minded, sticking to the current, and failing psychiatric medication based paradigm.
Posted by Stephany at March 7, 2008 03:41 AM