Cause of death?
Time to go! 94 years-old.
I really would love to believe that she is the one of the million persons that "they" say was healed by the miracle of SSRI's in her case Prozac.
I didn't know that it was green-and-white when it was launched.
Isn't it blue?
For many people it's the right color since it make them feeling blue.
I'm would like to know what will she said to her great-grandpa when she first saw him.
"Thank you for healing me." is one of the possibilities.
or:
"Dear Lord! You messed my health! Why did you created a drug with so mane side effects and that made me keep taking it till today after dying because I could not withdraw?... blah blah blah...
blah... blah... blah... blah blah blah blah..."

If she doesn't do it Col Eli Lilly and many others have already talked to many of the victims who were killed due to drug-induce violent behavior.

I will pay him a visit in same years and ask him if what he thinks of what was done of his creation.

Have you done any research on this woman? She was basically the mad cap socialite and philanthropist. She was treated absolutely shamefully by various ingrate relatives who thought they had a right to the money, even though she was the last direct heir. They were terrified that she was going to give it away or spend it all and they weren't going to get any. There was a long-running guardianship hearing where they tried to wrest the family fortune from Ruth. It was a truly revolting bunch.

She became somewhat hypomanic on Prozac, though.

She donated $200 million to a small Poetry magazine that employed six people at the time. I would question her judgement [and the excess].

The donation occurred after she started the Prozac. Perhaps this is why her relatives were trying to wrest away her fortune. They knew something wasn't 'right' with her.

Ruth looks pretty spaced out in those pictures that accompanied the article. Twenty years of Prozac could do that to you. It can change your life all right -- by giving you dementia. One way to cure depression I guess.

"It can change your life all right -- by giving you dementia."

Yeah, being really old never causes dementia, but Prozac does. I mean there's so much evidence for that, we don't even need to cite it!

Well, like most placebos, Prozac will work, if one accepts the suggestion.

*Cheap shot alert* I don't doubt her relatives would approve of administering narcotics to unwitting citizens...

Matt

Ms. Lilly might have not been able to accurately assess in 1988 the benefits of Prozac or whether it changed her life. Sadly, she had been declared incompetent seven years earlier.

Neuroskeptic, you keep asking for evidence that drugs cause long term side effects but when I asked you for evidence that they don't, you could only cite an 8 to 12 week study that proves nothing. Side effects take a long time to develop and definitely result from long term use. So really, your sarcasm is getting a little tiring.


Anyway, folks might want to read this exert from Prozac Backlash, by Joseph Glenmullen:


http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/g/glenmullen-prozac.html?_r=2


While he doesn't mention SSRIS causing dementia, he definitely mentions memory loss.


He is not anti meds by the way.


I know neuroskeptic that you'll say this is all anecdotal. But you haven't been able to prove that drugs antidepressants don't cause side effects in spite of many people who have reported that they do.



You also claim that because you haven't experienced any side effects and you don't know anyone who has, that you infer that this proof that side effects don't exist. And that means you're being scientific? I don't think so.

I don't do no think SSRI's work well and they certainly cause side effects but what data exists that they clearly "cause" dementia? It is not the job of neuroskeptic to prove that they do not cause dementia. It is the job of AA to prove they do. That is the way science works. If I state blue car ownership causes dementia it is not your job to prove me wrong it is my job to prove my hypothesis. Is there some solid data connecting such medication use to the development of dementia? What kind of dementia? I have not scene this and would like to be made aware of it please.

Just realized Ruth Lilly died 3 days before the estate tax was lifted for year 2010.

Neuroskeptic, I actually thought you had been banned, but whatever. . . While of course it's true that every 94 year old who has dementia is not on Prozac or some other psych drug (although a lot of them are), I'd like to bet that each and every 94 year old who is on Prozac and has been for more than ten years has dementia.

Dr. John, keep in mind that neuroskeptic thinks SSRIs cause only mild or zero side effects. So while I normally would agree with you about the way science works, in this case, because of the context in which I was responding, I think my point was legitimate.


Remember Dr. John when people thought that cigarettes didn't cause lung cancer? If I had asked someone similar to Neuroskeptic to prove it didn't, you would have said I was violating science protocols even though I would have been proven right eventually.



In my previous post, I didn't claim that I had solid evidence that SSRIs cause dementia. But I did post an exert from Glenmullen's book on Prozac backlash that indicates it is definitely possible as they are observing people developing memory loss after long term use of SSRIS. Obviously, memory loss doesn't necessarily equate to dementia but it certainly isn't a huge leap of a conclusion to make.


Finally, Dr. John, let me ask you this. Many of your colleagues are like neuroskeptic and believe that side effects from psych meds are mild. Or if they think side effects exist, they never hesitate to blame the mental illness for the problems.


In order for there to be a study, there has to be an hypothesis. If no one believes these drugs are causing harm, how are we ever going to have those unbiased studies to that follow science protocol as you described? In other words, we're not going to have that researcher who finally tells the truth about cigarettes.

Ooooh! Let's have a heated debate!

I have a hypothesis: ALL "scientific" research is anecdotal, certainly when it comes the benefits/side effects of drugs, because, even if the published results are officially-sanctioned (by a peer-reviewed journal), the original data will have come from the mouths of test subjects, and will be based upon their ability to put their experiences into words (anecdotal, in other words). That these words will be rendered into a standardized "scientific" format by researchers is neither here, nor there.

Subjects... subjective... Hmmm.

Anyway, people know their own experiences in a way that researchers never could. If I take a drug, and my symptoms suddenly worsen, then I'm going to be satisfied as to why. An interested drug company may choose to argue that my "condition" is to blame (how could they possibly "know"), but I don't give a fuck; when these types are able to stand and argue their position, I'll be more confident that they have one.

I would like to know, for starters, what benefit any of these drugs have, above and beyond the placebo effect? Actually: don't bother, because I already know... They don't have one.

Matt

PS None of this brings the old lady back to life, or makes Eli any less of a secretive, colluding, criminal entity. With crap drugs.

Prozac started off as a green and white cap-tapered at one end and4 some strange reason ppls went on and on about the design of it-I remember when it was on the cover off newsweek or times-I still have my old sample pack from 1990-the marketing of prozac was wonderful-talk about taking AD"s in2main steam-

Below was in the times-Ive never seen in print some one own that babies are having withdrawal from ssri"s-jst pointing u2wards it-Happy New Year and all the best2you and yours

WITHDRAWAL

Do babies feel antidepressant-withdrawal symptoms?

Researchers at the Rabin Medical Center in Israel think they do. A study of 120 newborns found that among those whose mothers took the antidepressants known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), nearly one-third experienced neonatal-abstinence syndrome--drug withdrawal characterized by such symptoms as tremors, gastrointestinal distress and sleep disturbances

sorry I dont have a link-is easy2find if ya want2-co co co

Here's a curious coincidence, for you:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/death-of-heiress-investigated-by-police-1859013.html

"I know neuroskeptic that you'll say this is all anecdotal. But you haven't been able to prove that drugs antidepressants don't cause side effects in spite of many people who have reported that they do."

A lot of people think rock music makes you worship Satan. It doesn't. But there's no hard evidence it doesn't because no-one's done a long-term study.

The evidence that we have, doesn't support SSRIs causing dementia or whatever else. They cause mild-to-moderate acute side effects such as appetite loss, emotional blunting, increased orgasm latency etc which may, or may not, be troublesome, but generally aren't; there is a withdrawal syndrome but it's likewise usually mild. In some cases people have genuinely troublesome experiences with SSRIs, I have never denied that, but these are the exception not the rule which is why 30 million Americans took antidepressants last year, 30 million Americans don't do something if it makes them feel bad, I mean it's hard enough to get Americans to do something (like vote for "socialized" healthcare) that will make them feel a lot better!

Sara - No I haven't been banned - I don't think Philip would ban his most scientifically-literate commentator. Are you accusing him of being stupid? Heh...

Neuroskeptic . . . Well it's all in the name isn't it? .. Skepticism is fine as is cynicism.. Skeptic boy says that because '30' million americans' take ssri drugs then that must mean these drugs are good for them. I've never heard anything so ridiculous in my entire life.. I'm sure many tens of millions more americans drink alcohol and eat hamburgers, have un protected sex and break red lights from time to time but that doesn't mean these these choices are good things. Just because a lot of people do something or ingest something into their body, be it drug or etherwise does not validate the safety of that substance or experience. I would like to ask neuro boy has he been on an ssri? Well neuro dude... Have you?