November 07, 2009The House Dems, Pres. Obama Have Lost Me On Health Care ReformWatch what goes down with this House health care reform bill being voted on over the weekend (unless it stalls) because something very tricky is going on. President Barack Obama went up to Capitol Hill today to personally lobby for votes yet he's asking legislators to pass a bill that doesn't even meet his deficit-neutral goal of $900 billion or less over 10 years. I'm very suspicious of why President Obama would now support the bill because it's now costed out at $1.2 trillion over 10 years. And how did the bill's cost jump from $872 billion last week to $1.2 trillion this week (the New York Times claims it's $1.1 trillion)? I cannot support this bill because of its cost (there are other reasons to oppose the bill)--and keep in mind that I've not had health insurance in two and a half years and would technically "benefit" under this bill. What's more, there's word of various amendments being tacked onto this bill late in the game and, as we know from the Medicare Part D nonsense of a few years ago, that type of chicanery is not to be trusted, regardless of which party is pulling the strings. Posted by Philip Dawdy at November 7, 2009 11:34 AM
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Hey Blue Dogs... are you seriously willing to end your political career for Nancy Pelosi? WHY? What's in it for you... and your constituents? Hard to imagine why anyone would allow themselves to be hectored into taking-one-for-the-team and incurring the wrath of the nation... when this arrogant socialist twit wouldn't spit on you if your hair was on fire. NOW is the time to KILL this pig- there's no future in backing Obama's radical plans anymore. Vote for this highly unpopular bill at your peril... as SanFranNan will leave you twisting-in-the-wind next fall, of THAT you can be sure... http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com Posted by: Reaganite Republican at November 7, 2009 03:05 PMPhilip: Is your objection to the health bill because it is too pure (i.e., you oppose any movement toward national health care) or not pure enough (i.e., you support European-style national health care)? Because at least where I am, I can't imagine a health care system less friendly to those with our conditions than the current one. Philip Dawdy responds: actually i don't object for either reason. instead the cost has gotten out of hand, there are too many fines and taxes buried in the bill, along with a ton of nannyish measures i'm not in favor of plus the thing has gotten so weird here at the end that my reporter's nose smells a real big rat. i hope they can kill this bill and get back to work on a bill that'll come in at about $800 billion or so and let's see what that looks like. i doubt any health care system will ever be particularly kind to people dx'd with mental disorders. sadly. Posted by: Larry at November 7, 2009 03:24 PMYou're just starting to get suspicious of Obama's motives? He has said in the past he supports a single payer system, and it may take several years to achieve it. He also checks with the SEIU before he does anything. You don't think the health plan is about helping you, do you? Posted by: Blackeneth at November 7, 2009 06:05 PMObama and the Dems took so much money from Pharma that the outcome was a foregone conclusion. I think at this point we need to breathe and watch. There might yet be a wrench thrown into this situation. Obama unfortunately is trying to please too many masters and it is not going to fare well for him-or us-but in terms of this particular situation-it's not all said and done yet. Posted by: Lili at November 7, 2009 09:28 PMWell, you've lost me here. I would think for Americans, any health care system at this point is better than no health care system. We can fine tune it later. When I lived in the United States, I was never forced to think about the plight of the uninsured, as we were insured. When I lived in Canada, I grumbled about taxes, but never even saw a bill for health care. Paying for health care through taxes meant we couldn't have the toys that our American neighbours had - bigger houses, the latest electronics, extra cars, vacations in exotic places. I envied what I didn't have. When I lived in Europe, I had excellent private insurance, but everybody had to have insurance. There seem to be a fair number of people in the USA who have no health care and who would be better off if they did, but complain vigorously if anyone tries to raise their taxes. This is the American oonsumer, I am told. A race to the bottom in terms of taxes produces some really weird and undesirable fall-out, be it in education, heath care or policing. But hey, we've got our flat screens and our cars. Posted by: Anonymous at November 8, 2009 12:29 AMhttp://bipolarsoupkitchen-stephany.blogspot.com/2009/09/pharmaceuticals-health-products-money.html Saturday, September 12, 2009 Pharmaceuticals / Health Products: Money to Congress: Obama scores Candidate Amount Obama, Barack (D) $2,100,543 Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) $686,349 McCain, John (R) $668,422 McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) $349,485 *election year, 2008 source: OpenSecrets, Money to Congress Pharmaceuticals / Health Products: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates and Parties Total contributions: $29,175,189 Pfizer Inc 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ----- http://bipolarsoupkitchen-stephany.blogspot.com/2009/07/pharmaceutical-research-and.html Friday, July 17, 2009 Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America(PhRMA) pays for pro-health reform TV ad: spent $20 million lobbying congress "Within this industry, the trade group Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) leads the way on lobbying activities, spending more than $20.2 million last year, or $10,750 an hour that Congress was in session." PhRMA paid for this television ad, supporting health reform. (go to the post to watch the TV ad brought to you by PhRMA) Don't forget how Pfizer had million dollar seats at the DNC. Obama is bought and paid for by pharmaceutical companies, and he never has to worry about income or insurance for himself or his children ever again. Posted by: Stephany at November 8, 2009 01:15 AMI wonder if you are letting the perfect get in the way of the good. Posted by: Paul Scott at November 8, 2009 08:30 AMIt seems like the legislation is so big and ponderous that I don't think anyone knows what will happen. I don't like that they took abortion out but then this will keep abortion a truly private matter which is good and possibly drive the cost down. I predict that mandatory health insurance will drive the cost of care way up and also result in a bunch of harmful unnecessary surgery and treatment but I could be wrong. My answer is consumer oriented legislation but people in the US for the most part can't get their minds around that. Posted by: Sally at November 8, 2009 09:14 AMTo reduce the question of health care to pure fiscal bottom line seems a uniquely American thing to me (I am Canadian), so I'm not surprised by the knee-jerk reactions, as in "how the hell are we going to pay for this?" Americans seem to have no problem paying trillions on failed foreign policy initiatives and dead-end wars; at least with health care, you're getting something good out of the deal. I think the social cost/benefit needs to be considered as part of the economics involved here. How much does it cost, in the long run, to have 40-million uninsured people, especially in a recessionary period. Giving the working poor and uninsured a bit less to worry about via health care assurances is more valuable to the economy and society than you may think. Just like the wartime spending of the 1940s pulled the world out of the great depression, health care spending will nudge the American economy back onto the road -- an important part of consumer confidence is knowing you have some basic social safety net to fall into if needed. This allows families to focus on getting money back into the household rather into the pockets of private insurers. Yes, this seems like a costly package, taxpayers pay, but they benefit in economic and social ways that transcend raw fiscal bottom lines. You can't have a healthy economy with a sickly or insurance-poor or insurance-deficient workforce. Moreover, there's never a free lunch. Getting people rights to basic health care coverage is going to cost money, there's no escaping that. If you are quibbling over what that cost should be, methinks you have missed much of the point of the exercise in this health care debate. The only people seem truly hurt by this legislation are the blood-sucking private insurance companies, but methinks they aren't hurt nearly enough. For-profit health care is an obscenity, in my humble view. But I digress... The Democrats have demonstrated, finally, government for the people, rather than for the lobbyists and corporate interests. This is likely what's got people, even some on the left, so confused: genuine for-the-people initiatives in Washington are so rare, when they happen, it's bound to produce reactionary deer-caught-in-headlights response from all partisan corners. Let this one sink in a bit before jumping on the private insurance company propaganda bandwagon (which the Republicans have been all too willing to pour fuel into). Posted by: The Skeptic at November 8, 2009 09:15 AM@anonymous at 12.29 am: spoken like a clueless european or canadian who fancies the govt doing everything for them. enjoy your 'liberty.' Posted by: Jones at November 8, 2009 09:38 AMYes, Jones, we clueless Canadians pine for the freedom to die because we can't afford chemotherapy. Posted by: Francesca Allan at November 8, 2009 09:46 AMfrancesca: with all due respect, you guys run your country the way you want and we'll run ours the way we want. enjoy your taxes and booming economy. Posted by: Jones at November 8, 2009 10:43 AMJones, yeah we can't have government involvement interfering with 45,000 of my fellow Americans dying each year due to lack of insurance. Jones, run your idiotic country any way you want. Just don't slag other countries who put human rights ahead of war mongering. Posted by: Francesca Allan at November 8, 2009 11:42 AMAA, Given the slim margin of victory last night, do you think legislation less "disgusting" would have stood a snowball's chance in hell of passing? I share your sentiment all the way, but wonder if this was the best possible bill at this time. If yes, is it better to have some margin of improvement over the status quo? I've never expected much more out of Democrats. Until the US has controls on election spending and lobbying, the mighty buck will usually prevail over principle. The Mafia learned a long time ago the benefits of donating equal sums to all candidates - which ever won, the Mafia had them in their back pocket. This legislation is a classic damned if you do, damned if you don't for Obama. The irony is, he likely wouldn't be in the White House facing this damnation were it not for big contributions from his health care "opponents" in the private sector.
Idiotic country? I'm a bit offended by that. We do do moronic things from time to time, but I don't think this country is idiotic. And I don't think Jones was slagging Canadians--he was just disagreeing with your nation's high taxes. AA: I'm not sure what the House bill does for the GOP. It'll be interesting to watch this all play out I guess. Posted by: Philip Dawdy at November 8, 2009 12:18 PM2000 pages of more government programs, with everything including the kitchen sink thrown in for good measure. Sounds a little worrisome to be honest at this juncture. Though 1.2 trillion dollars over ten years sounds like a real bargain considering the added "Pork" that will be coming down the pike as repayment for many of those important "blue dog" votes. Don't read me wrong here; I'm actually for affordable Health Care for all American Citizen's. Some form of single payer health insurance as a safety net actually makes rational sense; when used as a compliment to other private insurance anyone can choose to purchase as they see fit and can afford. I personally tend to lean toward it should be a right, verses a privilege in these modern times in which we live. So, besides the fact that this reform bill has most likely less than a 50/50 chance of making through the Senate, and onto the President's desk. There are also far too many government programs now that are steeped in fraud and corruption including a tax code that has too many loop holes and wreaks with unfairness, a medicare system that is infested with out-of-control fraud and abuse, an FDA that is obviously not working all that well, plus a full array of other government departments and programs full of corruption/waste, and finally that always naughty business of powerful lobby's and corporate influence standing between the concept of a "government for, by, and of the people". This just my personal opinion on this health care legislation, and really doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the overall scope of this debate in reality. To have an effective and fair health reform bill; you must start with a cleaning of this governments dirty and messy house first and foremost. I would anticipate whether your for or against this particular legislation; I hope that the vast majority would agree that the last thing this country needs in these trying economic and otherwise turbulent times, is another government bureaucratic boondoggle drawing us all further into the abyss of deficit and debt. Posted by: MsPiggy at November 8, 2009 03:02 PM Okay, Philip, that was unfair of me and I take it back. Jones' comments (that health care = loving less freedom) really rubbed me the wrong away. Sorry. Posted by: Francesca Allan at November 8, 2009 05:17 PMDon't worry about it, Francesca. I'm an American and Jones' comment pissed me off for the same reason George Bush pissed me off every time he opened his mouth. The "My country is better than yours" routine is juvenile and pointless. So Jones, do you really enjoy your liberty without qualification? It doesn't bother you that some people don't get the freedoms that others take for granted? Gays? People who volunteer instead of working, so they can get state-sponsored health care for their kids 'cause they couldn't afford it on their wages? Lucky you. Single payer health care won't work in America because too many Americans are selfish bastards. Just putting that out there. Posted by: Sarah at November 8, 2009 07:24 PMYou might want to check out the http://www.lastingliberty.com/ piece on the healthcare debate : Bigger Than Healthcare Posted by: Grant at November 8, 2009 08:05 PMyou know I agree with francesca, this country is idiotic. It's full of materialistic, uneducated, american idol watching consumers who would rather have the money in their pocket to buy the latest ipod or lcd tv - even when the ipod they already have works as does the plasma HD tv they already have - than to have to give it to the "oh-so irresponsible" government so that the government can provide for the citizens of this country what the greedy unethical corporations that employ us and bombard us with this idiotic, self sabatoging consumerist capitalist advertising and propogandist media WON'T DO FOR US. We are afraid of socialism??!! WTF!? Socialism has been shown to work perfectly fine in a good number of countries and the citizens of those countries seem to be living perfectly happy lives, at least if not more so than us in the USA. What is there to fear? not being able to waste as much money on buying sh*t you don't need and that you definitely don't need in order to be happy?, and instead have that money go towards TRULY IMPORTANT THINGS like universal healthcare, better public schools so we can stop being such a bunch of idiots, maybe even affordable colleges, infrastructure development so that we can find a REAL solution to the looming energy crisis? oooohhh that is soooooo scarry. WHATEVER PEOPLE! Quit being so afraid of POSITIVE change or we are just going to keep on doing the same old stupid shit in this country, like the idiotic shit we came up with that caused the current economic crisis, and eventually this country is going to turn into such an unlivable and unlovable piece of crap for the majority of us that we will be BEGGING so badly for change that we might just end up where? oh that's right, right back ACTUALLY at socialisms door, begging to be let in because our obliviousness and the fact we are soooo easily manipulated by propoganda and BS and spend sooooo little time actually doing our own self education about how the economy works, what socialism actually is, what the issues actually are that we aren't even fulfilling our obligation as citizens that is REQUIRED in order to make democracy work! ( and education is not just listening to the radio talk show hosts and reading the newspaper but actually cracking open a text book or two and reading the full text of the bills being considered, maybe read a few books too instead of spending all our time watching idiotic tv and going shopping for sh*t we don't need.) I'm not saying I want a nanny state that is going to try to tell me what I can eat, smoke, what I can and can't do with my body or property, THAT is the last thing I want... but a government that steps in when its citizens and corporations are too greedy and unethical and self centered to give up a little spare change in order to take care of thier fellow man and provide for THEIR OWN society and people things like healthcare and affordable housing and a livable minimum wage??? Hell yes I want to live in a country where everyone pays a FAIR SHARE into the "system" in order that even poor people can go to school and become doctors without having to spend the first 10 years of their working life paying off student loans! Hell yes I want to live in a country that takes care of its own and doesn't complain about it like a bunch of spoiled self centered greedy little bratts! Unfortunately I don't make enough money to save enough money to move the hell out of this country, but I still make enough that if I had to give an extra couple hundred bucks of it as taxes in order to provide all of the above I would GLADLY find a way to live a simpler less expensive lifestyle in order that my fellow human being would be sparred so much of te trouble caused by our capitalistic consumerist materialistic selfish society. Sometimes I pray this "recession" gets 10x's worse so that people will have to experience truly hard times, because its not until you or your family are standing in lines at soup kitchens living in shanty towns and having no access to help from the government or your fellow man BECAUSE you voted against all social wellfare systems when times were good so you could spend your money as you pleased.... well its not until people face these kinds of dire straights that they can FINALY get an F-ing clue and be willing to let such "socialist" things such as social security and medicare etc., come to pass. Yes people are just THAT stupid, that they can't believe it could happen to them until it does, and so they go around with their noses in the air and their heads up their butts saying "poo poo on social wellfare systems and the government getting any of my money to do anything with no matter what a good idea or a neccessity it is". So you know what? Bring on the worst depression the USA has ever seen (and hopefuly other nations will be spared as it is our nation that needs the lession) I am more than willing to live under a bridge for a couple of years if that means the majority of the spoiled brat delusional overly optimistic selfish f*cktards in this country have to experience real strife and struggle too, that way they can learn compassion and common sense because as it is now the majority of the citizens of this country have not a trace of either in their cold ignorant hearts. Good luck to you socialists in the Senate. The AP reports that reform faces a stone wall there: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2010229384_apushealthcareoverhaul.html Posted by: Jones at November 8, 2009 09:03 PMThe big problem I see in the US isn't just the uninsured--it's the fact the insured are paying through the nose for the privilege of fighting for care when they need it. My husband now has a PCP in a city 35 miles from our home. He hasn't seen him in years because it's hard to get down there to see him. Why? Because his expensive, "excellent" health insurance policy is written so he can ONLY go to the hospital at which his PCP has privileges. In our case, this would have meant being confined to receiving care at a really inept local hospital. Gone are the days when your family doc's job was to diagnose you, then help you figure out the best place to get treated. Our PCPs now are merely shunts to specialists owned by the local hospitals. The net result is he has a doctor he doesn't know, who doesn't know him. God forbid he ever gets cancer or some other serious ailment. I'm not going to be a happy camper knowing one of the country's best cancer centers is 90 miles away--but he can't go there because it's "out of network." I'm sick of seeing people die up here while the local hacks diddle around scratching their heads and making mistake after preventable mistake. Posted by: Sherry at November 9, 2009 07:20 AMPost a comment
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