Speaking of Lilly.. found this article in my hometown newspaper this morning: http://www.indystar.com/article/20091104/BUSINESS03/911040356/Drug+makers+find+whistle-blowing+a+bitter+pill+to+swallow

Those Stanford professors think they walk on water and that they can get away with anything. Furthermore this poor sod seems to believe in what he's doing. I hope there's some ugly fallout from his rather naive (and dare I say, arrogant) justification for the way these talks (aka promotions) are handled. I can't believe he's both bragging and justifying on his own website. Looks like something Danny Carlat might want to write up. Thanks for bringing this to our attention except I didn't really need to hear about yet another shrink over there who's in pharma's back pocket. It's a race to see whether Harvard or Stanford is the most outrageous.

And God bless Manoj Waikar's patients. He claims not to have any particular "brand loyalty" but what he clearly has is psychiatric drug loyalty in a big way and apparently has never given any thought to any other way of doing things. To quote his website: "Each molecule . . . has something positive and unique to offer. . . we have a rich pharmacotherapeutic toolbox." Oh please, this makes me weep or throw up or both.

This is why I am going back to night school and plan on being a high school teacher in 5 years. I am getting out of this field asap. This is the standard of practice in psychiatry. Trying not to prescribe is a professional hazard because if something bad happens it looks like you have not followed the "standard of care". On top of that many pts are so brainwashed by the media and Drs they do not want to hear they are not "Bipolar" and need 4 meds or that there is no science to support that. I know most on this sight are angry at psychiatry and they should be. Try taking crap from pts who do not want to be told there suffering is not an illness nor in need of polypharm. Most are not reading this sight!

Wow, Sara, that is bad. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand what the hell the "molecules" are doing... more like, take this drug and feel better. Not all that different from a drug dealer, really.

Dr. John, I wish you well. I'm sorry this happened to you but glad you are seeing the light. Join ICSPP to find some like minded souls if you do stay in a field related to psychiatry/psychology. Really there are so many people who can benefit from psychiatrists who understand the truth. And there are patients out there who want to find them although they're few and far between too, it's true, as you point out. But even if you specialized just in withdrawal alone you would be making a contribution. Still no one wants to have patients arguing with them that they are sicker than the doc says and hand over the poison please. That stinks.

Thanks Sara! Your kind words make me feel very good.Most days just suck the life out of me. I am doing a lot of CD and detox and in particular with Suboxone. I am actually getting people well who have failed multiple 12 step programs after 6-12 months and sending them on their way drug free with orders they never use any psychoactive drugs again. I feel bad for pts as they get so many mixed messages. Yesterday I saw a lady who I am detoxing off Heroin with Suboxone. She is seeing another Dr who gives her Cymbalta, Paxil, Abilify and added Concerta because she is tired!! She also smokes weed which the other Dr does not know. I exploded and told her she had to make a choice about her life. I am taking her in one direction trying to get her off drugs of all kinds and her dealer/psychiatrist is taking her in another. I wrote this web sight on a piece of paper and told her to check it out but it was his way or mine. I think she will choose his.I am trying to help my pts but everyone around me is telling them they are just in need of psych drugs and truly for me there is great professional liability by helping someone see their emotional experiences as a normal struggle instead of a disease. Our culture and courts have bought into this myth hook line and sinker. I will likely keep my hand in this work long enough to get my kids through school but I am going back to teach young people how to think in a critical manner.We are poisoning many of them and ourselves. I will check out the ICSPP. Thanks Dr John

Dr John,

I share your *exact* sentiments. I feel miserable as a practicing psychiatrist. Even though I love helping others (and there is a rich and fascinating history and literature of pharmacological, psychotherapeutic, and holistic approaches to promote mental health), I feel like a glorified drug dealer. And I use the word "glorified" literally: patients have been brainwashed to believe that I am a "god" of sorts (which I am most definitely not!) and that my prescriptions will be the magic potion to solve all of their issues.

Truth be told, I think the true benefit of the treatment I provide-- assuming the patient doesn't experience any of numerous medication side effects-- is simply the attention and compassionate ear I lend them. Meds are placebos with adverse effects, in most cases.

This whole field is a sham, and this example of Dr Waikar reflects everything that is wrong about psychiatry. I will not and cannot judge him as a person or even as a clinician, but this attitude of making a buck off shameless promotion of potent (and marginally effective) chemical agents, the influence of pharmaceutical companies and their profit mandate, and the wholesale ignorance of lifestyle changes, is too entrenched in modern psychiatry for me to feel comfortable as a member of this profession.

Sara, I will indeed look into ICSPP as well. Thank you so much for promoting the alternative voice. It's just unfortunate that it's the "alternative."

SteveBMD,

In attempt to put perspective on your candid comment here, are you the same doctor that admitted her to me in a previous comment, that you take psych meds?

Aw, that makes me feel horrible. Can you imagine 10 years of Med School, Internship, Residency and $300K in student loan debt only to find out your profession is a "sham". What do you do? I know more than one psychiatrist who is profoundly depressed over the situation.

My psychiatrist quickly got annoyed with me when I realized he was not "God" and stopped going along with everything he had to say. It's not his fault, but it really didn't feel much different than a visit to a drug dealer, except that a drug dealer wouldn't enter things into my permanent record and ask me about my family situation.

You know this is really sad.

It made me realize how the good doctors are suffering by the corruption and prostitution of the majority of doctors in the field of psychiatry.

Joining up with ICSPP might provide a good alternative to leaving the field entirely.

Stephany,

In the interest of full disclosure, yes I have been on psych meds in the past, at least 4 of them, for brief periods. I never had any problems with any of them, but at the same time, none were very helpful. I benefited FAR more from psychotherapy, group treatment, and other modalities. When I practice now, I am acutely (and personally) aware that meds can only do so much, and feel like it's my obligation to convey that to patients and to help them with other alternatives. Unfortunately, psychiatrists like me make more money prescribing meds than we do talking/listening to patients. Hence the skewed priorities.

One more thing-- I did have one psychiatrist (on the Stanford faculty, actually) who was not solely focused on meds and who took the time to work with me on a more holistic treatment plan. Of course, I was a colleague so maybe he was more collaborative with me, but his approach WAS genuinely helpful.

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

SteveBMD, Are you saying you were/are on the Stanford faculty? If so I'd love to know more but I guess we're locked into a certain anonymity here on the site. You can contact me through www.ssristories.com if you want. Yes, there are undoubtedly well meaning clinicians even at Stanford and they do have practitioners in integrative medicine I'm pretty sure. But IMHO there are also some Biederman wannabes over there as well.

Yes, Sara, such as Kiki Chang

http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/Kiki_Chang/

The front man that appears for Biederman in the PBS program the Medicated Child, and Kiki Chang of CABF bpkids org fame.

http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/frdActionServlet?choiceId=showCOIs&fid=4584

Consulting: Dr. Chang receives fees of $5,000 or more per year as a paid consultant or speaker for the following companies:

Bristol-Myers Squibb

Lilly

http://www.bpkids.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ppl_advisory

CABF (Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation)

Professional Advisory council

Kiki Chang, M.D.

Associate Professor and Director of Pediatric Bipolar Disorders Program, Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, Stanford University School of Medicine in Palo Alto, California

Melissa DelBello, M.D., M.S.

Associate Professor of Psychiatry and Pediatrics, Vice-Chair of Clinical Research, University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, Ohio.

Barbara Geller, M.D.

(Past Chair)
Professor of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine at St. Louis, MO

Joseph Biederman, M.D.

Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. Chief, Clinical and Research in Pediatric Psychopharmacology Massachusetts General Hospital and McLean Hospital

***Joan Luby, M.D.

Associate Professor of Child Psychiatry
Director - Early Emotional Development Program
Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis***

***(conflicted researcher of the new toddler-preschoolers get depressed fame)

Janet Wozniak, M.D.

Director, Pediatric Bipolar Disorder Research Program
Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital.

Hmm, interesting. Most of the Stanford-trained psychiatrists I know are biopsychiatry fascists. I really, really cannot stand the entire Stanford Pediatric Bipolar clinic and they scare me. I'm moving to Palo Alto soon and my absolute biggest nightmare is that Kiki Chang somehow gets ahold of my six year old.

Sara,

By "colleague" I mean I was a psychiatrist, too. No Stanford affiliation.

Wow Stephany, that's like a who's-who of child psychiatrists with massive conflicts of interest.

Yes, that's the principle one I meant of course. Just trying to stay diplomatic. I've been letting loose a bit too freely lately.

Hey Kimbriel -- I want to get together when you move over here!! We met at the APA demonstration, remember?

I know, we should totally keep in touch... I don't have your email or anything. But yeah, I'll let you know if/when we make the move. LOVE Stanford/Palo Alto, except for the Kiki Chang gang.

Dr. John and Dr. Steve, have you considered starting practices dealing with psych med withdrawal issues? I know of a psychiatrist whose practice is devoted strictly to this cause and this person is very busy.



Too bad he isn't in my area.


Dr. John, are you sure high teaching is better? I know someone who teaches elementary school and this person is extremely burnt out. The demands are absurd.


No matter what, if you leave psychiatry, it sounds like patients will lose big time. You and Dr. Steve sounds like the type of psychiatrists we would love to have.

Yeah, I second that AA... I looked up Dr. John, he's nowhere near me... I'd be willing to pay cash for that kind of help (and usually when I talk about psychiatric help, "help" is in quotes)... it's too bad some good doctors are leaving the field. They are out there - just hard to find, and the ones in my area are $400 a visit.

You know, I don't think a doctor, with 4 years of university education, at least, 3 or 4 years of med school and the 4 or 5 more years of a psychiatric residency, with all that eduction, is repeatedly going to refer to web sites as "web sights." Not twice in one post and then again in another. Look at the writing style.

Sorry, played FAIL.

Well taking that further... I wouldn't think a person would randomly change the spelling of his own name, either.

Spelling isn't an indication of intelligence or education. Doctors are known for having crappy handwriting too- does flunking penmanship mean they're not real doctors?

I happen to know who "Dr. John" is (though not in person) and I can verify he is, indeed, a real doctor. I've read his published articles.

Julian Baine is a troll:

banned from my blog and currently bragging at Different Thoughts blog, posting under several fake names.

Anonymous said...
Actually, it's just because you silly birds are so easy to play. Remember Stephen Blau? LOL.

-- Julian Baine

08 November 2009 03:51

Anonymous said...
"Do you mean doctor Blau?"

Well, I went from Mr. Blue to Blau to Stephen Blau. You added the "Doctor" and then found an existing Dr. Stephen Blau after Googling and actually assumed I was him. Then slandered the poor guy on your blog. LOL. He thought you were an idiot. I don't know if he ever got in touch with you himself.

Oh well, at least I have insurance. LOL.

-- Julian Baine

08 November 2009 16:36

http://diffthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/11/more-saturday-fun.html#comment-form

stephen blau

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/10/27/oprah-the-7-year-old-with-schizophrenia/

http://knowledgeisnecessity.blogspot.com/2009/05/tooting-from-san-francisco-iii-major.html

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/29/wikipedia-vs-rorschach/

julian baine

http://www.furiousseasons.com/archives/2009/11/fort_hood_shooting_army_psychiatrist_kills_12_wounds_31_fuller_torrey_silent.html

Take what they say with that in mind.

Steve,

In my experience with psychiatrists, true compassion is a rare and valuable trait. Or maybe they just don't let it out of the cage. Anyway, don't underestimate it!

I wish you'd been my friend's shrink at Stanford. She loves to have a dealer for a shrink, and maybe you'd have thrown her for a loop. (She's brilliant but won't do the emotional work.)