Dr.Christopher Varley would not acknowledge the past history of my child's psychiatric medication over-prescription by doctors, and as an inpatient care provider of my child at Children's Hospital he proceeded to prescribe Seroquel at large doses (800mg)to my child who had previously been trialed on all other antipsychotics that resulted in massive weight gain. When the Seroquel did not do what Varley expected, he proceeded to place the child on Zyprexa. This, within the last few years.

I find it unbearable at times, to see the findings and discussions finally arrive by doctors with 25+years experience, conclude what parents like myself have been saying all along.

If they listened sooner, much damage could have been prevented. In this case, Varley's "I'm the doctor" syndrome was in the way of his clarity, and the result was medication harm done to my child.

At what cost, does a child pay the price for being a "case study" for doctors. A life lost to a paradigm based on pharmaceutical greed, lack of ethics and loss of integrity and the phrase "first do no harm".

Please, try anything before these drugs on your children.

I applaud Philip for standing up, speaking out and not stopping the sound of alarm on behalf of children.

May this fight never end to get the word out; until this tragedy of the drugging of children stops being used with reckless abandon, we have a moral duty to speak out as adults to protect the most vulnerable of our society.

http://www.pharma.us.novartis.com/products/name/clozaril.jsp

Dr. CK Varley is on the speakers bureau for Novartis, the makers of Clozaril.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:4vNcp-hl_iMJ:www.northstarbehavioral.com/Microsoft%2520PowerPoint%2520-%2520Anxiety%2520update%2520July%25202009%2520_%2520Anchorage.pdf+dr+christopher+k+varley+alaska&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Grand Rounds

NorthStar Behavioral Health

Christopher K. Varley, M.D.

July 22, 2009

Anchorage, AK

"Presenter: CHRISTOPHER K. VARLEY, M.D. has documented that his presentation involves comments or discussion of unapproved or off-label,experimental or investigational use of SSRIs, benzodiazepines, venlafaxine and TCA’s in treatment of anxiety in youth."

Paid by pharma, when will it end?

When I was 17, my doctor put me on Zyprexa for bipolar/psychosis. I gained 30lbs in a month, going from a normal 120 to 150, and became really dangerously aggressive. I am so so SO against kids being put on atypicals (I've been on them all, with nothing good coming out of it), and when I saw that study it was one of the first real articles that actually said that they cause ridiculous weight gain. They are dangerous for kids & teenagers, and should be used sparingly (especially Zyprexa, which can cause diabetes).

It's good news to finally see these people admit (if even in a small under the radar way) what has been painfully obvious in destroyed lives and deaths for far to long.

I guess my only question here is; what do they "The Medical Community" plan to do about those individuals lives they have destroyed while coming to this long overdue epiphany.

We know in fact that today atypical anti-psychotic and other psychotropic focused drugs are some of the most over prescribed supposed medications on the planet.

I don't see the FDA, medicine, Pharma, or our government stepping to the plate to urgently take action in stopping further damage to children and adults.

Please keep posting!!! You're one of the few and the needed!!

great work, Philip! Yes, they are kids... they deserve better... and we all deserve better...

Thank you and congratulations Philip.
I hope one day all you are working hard to be known will be common knowledge and you get the credits you deserve.
I still don't feel vindicated.
Knowing that children are being on clinical trials and all...
One day...

I think this report smells fishy. Smells like the work of anti-psychiatry Scientologists. Psychiatric medications are a healthy part of a balanced lifestyle for the majority of children with childhood bipolar disease, a serious but treatable medical condition.

My child has bipolar disorder and I've come to learn that her rages have nothing to do with me and that this is a highly genetic biological brain-based disorder.

We have her on eight meds prescribed by the director of our local university clinic and we've received extensive psychoeducation about the nature of her disease. Additionally, my husband and I attend a support group three times a week for parents of bipolar children at the hospital.

I trust very much in the power of medicine and am very thankful for the big glitzy university hospital where we live. Her neuropsychopharm says that when taken as prescribed, her medicines including the atypicals are safe and effective. They're all FDA approved drugs anyway.

Studies like this are done by stupid Scientologists that don't understand brain-based disorders.

It may all depend on the specific medication and individual, of course, too. Geodon has done wonders for my son where other medications have done nothing.

Most of what's posted here is all anecdotal anyway. What didn't work for you may for others, and it may save their life.

JC, you must be joking. And if you're not, that poor child should be removed from your care. EIGHT different meds?

Julian Bairn said "Most of what's posted here is all anecdotal anyway. What didn't work for you may for others, and it may save their life."

Shall we add that it may severely injure or kill; or are those documented consequences purely anecdotal also?

Do you attend meetings with JC, Julian Bairn?

Even if the atypicals were phenomenally effective for treating mental illness, I think the increased mortality and morbidity from the complications of weight gain would outweigh the mental health benefits.

Giving out these medications reminds me of the quote from the Vietnam War "we had to bomb the village in order to save it".

MsPiggy said: "Shall we add that it may severely injure or kill ..."

Many medical procedures have the potential for great harm, "simple" anesthesia in operations is one most people are unaware of. You balance the risks with the potential gain.

My son is no longer psychotic and has made no suicide attempts in the last two years of treatment. This after two years of revolving hospitalizations and increasing desperation. I thank God and I thank his doctor. And I thank Pfizer.

Some here obviously have their own agendas but for others we're just grateful to have a family member alive and and having a life again. That's not so much to have to spite other people about, MsPiggy, I'd think.

Julian, some parents have seen their children harmed permanently by these drugs, mine for example.

That's not an agenda.

That, is a tragedy.

I do notice you are here speaking for your son that has been supposedly taken away from madness by that miracle Pfizer drug Geodon.

I guess it goes without saying you believe your son has a "highly genetic biological brain-based disorder" and "Psychiatric medications are a healthy part of a balanced lifestyle for the majority of children with childhood bipolar disease, a serious but treatable medical condition" or childhood psychosis. (you can correct me if I'm way off base with that assumption)

I mean psychosis is just like a terminal cancer or diabetes in your view correct? You have done the cost/risk/outcome analysis.

As I have seen with many propagandized parents from the NAMI, BPDKids brainwashing. You go out and about spouting the greatness of drugging children.

Could it be you have chosen to not open your eyes to the wealth of knowledge available leading to very different conclusions, refused to consider the growing arsenal of dire consequences being uncovered, or questioning to what has now being shown over and over again to be the growing body of evidence to a dangerous, failed, and deeply flawed medical modality related to mental health issues especially for children.

But there is one golden shiny nugget that is always used against parents like yourself; there is little personal responsibility assumed once you have the biological disease to blame.

That mountain of guilt can begin to melt away once you grasp the belief you had nothing to do with this happening to your child. Once you have that in hand, the need to believe it is your choices and complete control that will save your son are firmly entrenched and seldom questioned.

I have to wonder how your son will feel down the road when those nasty side effects take control of his life and leave him quite possible permanently disabled.

How heart broken will you feel at that juncture in the journey I wonder. I happen to personally know parents that are facing that very reality. Now you want to talk about the burden of guilt they carry for what they were told was the only rational option.

Those doctors, drug companies, and support groups don't have to look into their child's eyes and assume responsibility for the damage done; the parent can not avoid this painful truth and haunting each and every day.

Please ask JC and many others like him how a parent/parents/doctor spoon feeding them drugs without informed consent or choice given in their developing lives fostered a cure, gave wellness, instilled hope, and brought them quality life. I fear you will not like and accept what you will hear from them.

Yet, you without doubt believe you have all the correct answers. All the doctors with the aid of some supposed advocacy groups have verified them to be truth with the help of these great trusting pharmaceutical companies.

In my own personal opinion this could be a very hard landing when all those people you trusted prove to be wrong at your son's expense. I honestly hope this doesn't come to pass in your case.

I can only assume you believe it's worth the gamble.

What they need to do is ask the children/teens who have gained all the weight on antipsychotics if it was worth it. But, of course they'll never do that study. It's not just the physical ramifications of using these drugs that need to be considered, but it's also the impact on them emotionally. Who wants to be the fat kid at school? What sort of psychological impact do they suppose causing rapid weight gain will have on these children? Do these child psychiatrists think? At all?

http://www.medsvstherapy.com/2009/10/pharmaceuticals-or-harmaceuticals-kids.html

I looked up some numbers, and posted on this data: these drugs are being pushed on at least one out of 20 U.S. kids. The weight gain, marked against U.S. growth charts for teens, is about four times the normal weight gain rate.

This is so beyond "anecdote."

What occurrd to me as a final comment at my post was: this is beyond black box warning, to blacklist warning.

MsPiggy,

There is no point in any discussion with you. Your mind is obviously closed.

I find it remarkable the number of close minded individuals here who clearly have no real experience with full on psychotic mania or depression and the incredible improvement psychiatric medications can provide with people suffering from these life threatening conditions, and they are life threatening in many cases.

I know they're speaking mainly from ignorance and misguided zeal and it does not excuse the potential harm they may bring to people's lives.

A spoke to my doctor about some of the views presented on this site and he just rolled his eyes and said I know. They don't have a clue, I said. He just nodded and said, I know.

"A spoke to my doctor about some of the views presented on this site and he just rolled his eyes and said I know"

Who's your doctor; J. Biederman of "Second to God" fame, or just a cheap knock off of the "we must drug kids aggressively before they even show signs of illness, this ain't no tushy massage"

Obviously you have shown your true BPKids colors here. Say Hello to your Pal "Marcie Lipsitt" for everyone.

Not sure which one of us is speaking "mainly from ignorance" or "no real experience" but I don't think it's me frankly. You and your doctor have a lot to learn about treating full psychotic mania and depression in a manner in which there is actually some hope for healing. Most of us here on this site have been first hand witnesses to the symptoms you describe and after years of medication exacerbating things if it hasn't killed someone first we're trying to paint a more complete picture of what's going on in the treatment of mental illness today. Good Luck to you Julian -- you're going to need it.

"I find it remarkable the number of close minded individuals here who clearly have no real experience with full on psychotic mania or depression and the incredible improvement psychiatric medications can provide with people suffering from these life threatening conditions, and they are life threatening in many cases."

Um, no, actually, we DO know about psychosis and mania, usually firsthand. If you want to drug your kid, then fine, go at it. But to say we don't have a clue because we have a different opinion than you do, that's just shortsighted. I get my opinions not only from personal experience but also from science, and you CAN find it, if you scratch deep enough. Just not from your friendly neighborhood psychiatrist.

Actually, just go to online support and discussion sites such as Mood Garden, The Icarus Project or Crazy Boards.

You will read scores upon scores of stories about people's struggle with mental illness, the full gamut, and also their struggles with medications.

No one has died. Many have vastly improved lives. You suggest they potentially throw away everything they've gained after such struggle just because the idea of these medications actually being beneficial sticks in your craw?

This site seems to give little people feelings of false empowerment, and it's dangerous to patients seeking out real diagnoses and treatment. But that topic never comes up. That wouldn't pay as well for Phil here, then, too, I suppose.

Philip Dawdy responds: i write what i believe to be true and interestingly there are plenty of people at the sites you reference who loosely agree with me. if you don't like the tone of this site or the commenters' views, then maybe it's time for you to find another outlet.

"... there are plenty of people at the sites you reference who loosely agree with me."

That's conveniently vague. Most have reasonable concerns about taking medication, which anyone should for any condition, but there are many who find antipsychotics, such as Geodon, very helpful. I've been in contact with a number of them just through my personal circumstances.

I have no problem with anyone's tone here. But if I disagree on some points, and I stress some, it doesn't mean I don't find other parts of the site of interest.

I do know people viewing your blog also pay you and I just take that into consideration when reading posts. Hardly unreasonable.

"You and your doctor have a lot to learn about treating full psychotic mania and depression in a manner in which there is actually some hope for healing."

Okay. What do they have to learn, and where can they find that information?

Go to Beyond Meds (www.bipolarblast.wordpress.com) and browse through her site, especially the links at the top of the home page. Also read this article by Robert Whitaker http://www.altuit.com/webs/TruthTrustConsent/JNF/BobW_x.htm This is only the tip of the iceberg but it's a start. You can also browse www.ssristories.com for a list of thousands of stories of medicated people who did some pretty bizarre and violent things. The main point is that, despite anecdotes of improvement on a short term basis and /or success in some crisis management, medications often cause a decline in long term mental and physical health.

Also watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6HGS0O9yEg&feature=player_embedded

Julian Bairn, when you actualy take these drugs you tout as effective and safe; instead of forcing them down your son's throat.

Just maybe then, further discussion would be worth the effort.

Until then, you're just an inconvenient nuisance to be ignored.

will look at those links. It will take me some time.

In brief response to your comment, I think that short-term gains can often be valuable, as they can buy a person time to learn skills that can help in the long-term. This has been my own experience. I was never able to understand anything the therapists were spouting until I had the experience of being placed back into my own body, through a combination of medication and acupuncture. Actually it was kind of funny, because once I was inhabiting my body, I went, "Oh," and didn't really have any more use for therapy! However, my experience was one of depression, not psychosis.

In the case of my friend with schizophrenia, she was unable to recognize that her symptoms were not real until they were brought down to a manageable level. She currently uses both medication and behavioral techniques to manage her symptoms. (I believe the medication quiets the voices somewhat, while her paranoia remains.) I'm not making any recommendation or judgment on what she will or should do in the future; I'm just not that knowledgeable, and she's an adult, so it's not my business anyway, but either way, it seems that this period of relative clarity for her is necessary for her to learn how to live with her illness.

I do agree with you that relying solely upon medications for long-term management can be risky, since, regardless of whether or not the medications end up actually harming a person, there is a good chance that they'll stop working after awhile, and then you're right back where you started.

That response ended up being not nearly as brief as I'd intended! Thanks for the info.

A response to the video referenced above by Sara:

Ooh, cool, i loved "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden"!

Here is my problem with that video. This is a culture that comes home and stares at a television for hours until they fall asleep. So for a lot of people, the kind of work that they need to do to get well is basically this enormous mountain since they have hardly any self-awareness, no coping skills, and, i don't know, no cultural context in which to build up the motivation to really get themselves better.

Also, i really believe a person needs to be well supported when attempting to bring painful issues to the surface, or else they may be at risk for harming themselves. People are very isolated nowadays. This became so clear to me when i was volunteering for a crisis line. Some people called to talk over issues that you would normally talk over with a friend, but they were so busy with their lives and they didn't have a friend to talk to. Some of the calls that affected me the most profoundly were people who just needed to connect with another human being for a moment; that was heartbreaking, really (although super easy for me to navigate as the volunteer). Without support, i think the process can sometimes really be too much to bear. Joanne Greenberg is a perfect example of that -- Look at all she went through to get well, but she was able to do it in an environment where she was kept safe. A lot of people don't have access to that, in whatever form it may take.

In other words, i think that the techniques and goals touched upon in that video, while important and laudable, are not realistic in the current climate. However, i do think that the video lays out where psychiatry should be trying to take itself. And it is clear to me that most psychiatrists wouldn't agree (They're big important M.D.'s, not social workers! ugh), and that, frankly, disgusts me. (I wonder if you have to go through a special "dicks only" screening before getting your license, and how my last two shrinks, who are awesome, managed to get past that.)

Here is a dilemma for a responsible doctor -- Let's say you have a patient who is eating himself to death. You have recommended dietary change, but you can't force that change. You still have a responsibility to help this person _despite_ his own determination to self-destruct. The only thing a doctor can then do is prescribe the meds and hope for the best.

Most of the psychiatrists i've seen are not what i would consider responsible doctors, at least not with respect to their treatment of me. They focused on diagnoses and fancy new meds and didn't give a shit about me as an individual. Maybe they cared at the beginning of their practice, but years of dealing with all those "crazy" people must've wiped out their altruism and their common sense.

Everybody with a mental illness can benefit from learning about their illness and how to deal with, learn from, or heal that illness. There are real personal issues and challenges that drive or complicate all mental illness. (Are all mental illnesses caused by personal issues, that is nurture rather than nature? I'm not convinced of that. I know of a perfectly, healthy, happy, laid-back and balanced girl who started hearing voices after college.) I believe that working with a skilled therapist can be beneficial for every individual. I think there are a lot of therapists out there who, although well-meaning, are not equipped to deal with some clients and don't realize or are not willing to admit that, and then end up doing harm.

It's complicated, is my opinion. I'm obviously a newcomer in a well-established group and would appreciate and enjoy feedback from others. I know that people here have expressed an aversion to psychotherapy and i would be interested in the context for that. Sorry for writing a fucking novel.

Sarah, You raise a lot of important points and they are ones I wrestle with a lot quite honestly. I agree with a lot of what you're saying too, especially that it's complicated -- you're not kidding. Hope you'll stick around and keep commenting and it will be interesting to see how/if your views evolve.

Remembering back to my teenage years, I'm sure getting fat as a pig would have done wonders for my self-esteem.

Dear Ms. Bairn

Re: “No one has died.”
http://www.fdable.com/aers/advanced_query/8c1bae095fc1
So far: 362 deaths have been reported with Geodon as the Primary Suspect (last updated 7/30/09); A drug that was just approved in February 2001. Another 137 listing Geodon as secondary or concomitant
Do a search for the other drugs they tried on your son and some numbers will likely be higher. Did you really know the risks-v-benefits ratio?
---
Re: “I do know people viewing your blog also pay you and I just take that into consideration when reading posts. Hardly unreasonable.”

Do you take into consideration the amount of money your psychiatrist makes by continuing to prescribe to your son? YOU (and your insurance) are paying him. It’s highly likely that he also gets paid even more, in various forms, by Pfizer. If you start to believe the things you mentioned to him (that he rolled his eyes about), HE loses income. Hardly an unbiased opinion.

http://pharmedout.org/industry.htm Click on Pfizer (grants to organizations) for a PDF listing organizations (including many Nami) that have received money from Pfizer. Unfortunately, Pfizer doesn’t disclose individual doctor’s payments yet. However, click on Eli Lilly: grants to individuals and search for your psychiatrist’s name, you may find he gets paid by them. The amount an individual doctor can get paid just for saying a drug works is at least 80% more than Philip has ever attempted in a year from this Blog.
----
Re: “You suggest they potentially throw away everything they've gained after such struggle just because the idea of these medications actually being beneficial sticks in your craw?”
This statement shows you have come to conclusions without reading much at all on this site.

re:Julian Bairn "This site seems to give little people feelings of false empowerment, and it's dangerous to patients seeking out real diagnoses and treatment."

There can be a false empowerment for the slaves of psychiatry? I don't think so.

"Real Diagnosis"?, thats a good one.

"Treatment"? you know what treatment is. It's pills and more magical pills.
............
From the website serenitynowhospital.blogspot
LINK
"Abilify 10 mg for my think glands it clears it."

{I tried to get him to tell me more about his thinking glands, his stuttering and vomiting issues, etc., but he was getting frustrated. "Look doc, I know you're trying to help, but I already said all I gotta say on that paper right there. I just need to get my meds. Give me some credit, man, I've made a 360 degree turnaround from when I was hospitalized right here a year ago."}

Julian Bairn wrote "give little people feelings of false empowerment, and it's dangerous"
(looks like a set up, but I will bite)
We are Borg, resistance is futile.
plagiarized from http://swashzone.blogspot.com
"When the Borg chant incessantly to their prey “Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated” – they are not belligerent. They are not argumentative. They are not surly. They are not even determined. All of these qualities would imply that they had hearts. Souls. Individuality of thought. They don’t have any of these things. When they utter their dire words they are simply stating facts as they know them. End of argument. In fact, there is no argument to begin with. Resistance in any form, such as argument, is futile. They are stronger. You aren’t."

"As long as a few escape collective brainwashing – there is hope."

Glad you've been keeping after this issue. Your earlier posts helped with one of my "Aha!" moments regarding the havoc these meds can cause in a still-developing endocrine system. It's bad enough in adults, totally unconscionable where kids are involved.

I ended up doing a post tying together some of the endocrine imbalance threads, and have been impressed at just how many people have been searching on various combinations of endocrine problems and psych meds. Even more people seem to be dealing with this than I'd thought, and having to Google for any kind of information.

As an Occupational Therapy student twenty years I watched how little we knew about medications. I did not like what I saw as standard of care practices years ago and I like it even less today. When my daughter became seriously mentally I was in shock because we did not have a family history. We were told it was a brain disorder that only medicine could treat, and therapy would not help. If I had allowed the medical mental health system to take over my daughter's care she would be on eight medications and in a group home today. I fought to get cognitive therapy and the correct medication. I was told by all four doctors including the one she has today to put her on disability for insurance and income given her age of 21. However, that meant she would not be able to work for at least one year and sitting around doing nothing for one year is not mentally healthy. I did a lot research and decided to go down fighting for a different approach. I take each day as it comes, but today she is a full time Junior in college with a part-time job. After four doctors I found a young doctor that agreed less medication was best and allowed my holistic approach to her illness. He slowly reduced her medication while we carefully watched the impact. She wants to medication free, but the doctor tells her she will become sick again. I tell her anything is possible if her mind, body and spirit come to a complete healing. I told her it is rare, but not impossible. We have her down to half of the recommended starting dose three times a week. She has been doing this for over one year. As much as I love this doctor he believes only in medication and not the fact research has shown a small percentage of patients make a full recovery. I do remind him of this fact every time we approach him for a reduction of medication. I reject the label she has been given as she has had four different labels... a new medication and a new label with each doctor. I am pleased when I see JAMA publishing and speaking up regarding the impact drug companies have on research and outcomes that ignore the facts. My daughter gained fifty pounds in two months when she was first placed on one the second generation of drugs mentioned. The drug companies are pushing for a test that will predict mental illness pushing for more drugs on children who have not even gotten sick. That is scary. Forget the studies on fish oil that has been a part of her recovery from day one. I feel certain a drug company will find some researcher that will disprove the study because it is not hard to find these researchers hungry for research money.

The histamine 1 receptor is fairly strongly blockaded by both seroquel and zyprexa. That could be one reason why the two drugs are dangerous for kids since that receptor has been studied extensively by researchers and has been recognized for creating weight gain in AAP users. February 2007 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, has carried the research on the histamine 1 receptor, that was conducted by Johns Hopkins University, Solomon Snyder the researcher. THe weight gain and quadrupled AMPK activity in the hypothalamus via zyprexa was noted in the study. ANd with weight gain comes additional metabolic irregularities most likely. If I am not mistaken seroquel carries the most extensive blockading of the histamine 1 receptor. ANd zyprexa and clozaril were noted to have a binding affinity between 1.0-1.9. The smaller the number the stronger the binding affinity. Risperdal had a 19 for H1r binding affinity strength. Lesser than clozaril and zyprexa.Also an article from Science STKE Elizabeth Adler? AMPK quardupled in hypothalamus with atypical antipsychotics---title went something similar to that---her article is a good read on the histamine 1 receptor blockading by aAP's.

I am not trying to be the devil's advocate or anything, but I am 16 years old and on geodon alone I am finally back to the way I was before bipolar hijacked my life. I would rather be fat and happy (as I am already heavy pre meds) than normal weight and wanting to die. I'm notb saying these meds are good for everyone- in fact, the contrary is usually true. It's just sometimes they can be helpful.