Uhm, well, this then makes me a person who should have been force "treated", since I got a (-n unofficial but nevertheless) "sz"-label, refused medical "treatment", and represented a danger to myself (suicide attempt). Never mind, that I recovered, fully, thanks to the fact that I could afford non-medical help that respected my wish to avoid psychiatry.

This is what annoys me the most about programs like the ABC one: either you reject medical "treatment", which inevitably renders you a ticking bomb, or you "take your meds!" As if Soteria and the like had never existed...

re :"shows a slight increase in risk of violence"
I just found a youtube video of "normal" guy Michael Moore (from raynesworld.blogspot.com) being horrified to find out that psychiatric drugs can make "ill" people severly worse, and the drug companies cover up the bad reactions, and only report the "good" reactions to sell their product.
LINK

"he's obviously unaware of the literature on violence and mental illness, which shows a slight increase in risk of violence but that it's mostly connected with people with substance abuse problems regardless of whether someone is on or off-meds."

Strange, isn't it, that none of the school shooters [which all started in the last 20 years since the introduction of the SSRIs] were on illegal drugs - not one of them, nope. But almost all of them were on SSRI antidepressants.

Antidepressants have given mental illness such a bad name that now people have to justify being off meds. Back in the 1960's and 70's if a person wanted to discontinue their psychotropic medication, they just did it. No one questioned the rationale. But things are different today since Prozac/SSRIs.

I didn't think the show was "OK" - I thought it was fear-mongering. The producers operated from the unexamined premise that psych meds "work" and that people who don't want to take ythem should be forced. Where was all the scientific data about the relative lack of efficacy and dangerous so-called side-effects of these drugs? Art Kaplan basically came off as a completely uninformed bigot. David Oaks was the voice of reason.

But I disagree with you that William Bruce should have been forced into treatement becuase he had previously threatened people with a gun. Rather, he should have been arrested for threatening people with a gun. Forced treatment is not the answer.

Philip Dawdy responds: compared to other major media on this issue i think the abc program was almost benign. compare it with a cnn program in the wake of the virginia tech shooting and you'll see what i mean. and yes it did operate from the premise that psych meds always work and that's clearly not the case.

Know why Kaplan is the only one willing to comment? Because any real academic psychiatrist is scared as all hell to stick her head up, lest she be subpoenaed by the esteemed Senator Grassley or pilloried by the other antipsychiatry denizens of the web. When journalists call these days, we've all learned to just say no.

The show did far more good than harm despite the predictable limitations. It did allow Caty and David to put a very interesting and impressive face on the Mad movement--which clearly few viewers will have ever heard of. So from experience putting out this message on TV in the mid-90s, I know thousands who never heard of the Mad pride will be motivated to check out the Mad pride movement.

Pace Phillip, there is no rationale for forced "treatment," which is forced drugging. Treatment should be non-coercive. As Darby says he should have been arrested. Phil states "What the program failed to point out is that Bruce should've been forced--as much as I hate saying that--into treatment as he had committed an act of violence before killing his mom and that was pointing an AK-47 at two people. Why the guy even had a gun is beyond my comprehension." The show did not even mention this. Obviously because he was labeled "mentally ill" he was not forced to face responsibility for pointing a gun at people. This is obviously a felony.Further he undoubtedly did not have gun permit. And yes of course what about gun laws and their enforcement?
Furthermore as a former family therapist I think there was something funny going on in that family.
Finally not mentioned--it never is--is the withdrawal effects of going abruptly off the drugs. Thus some of the school shooters may have been in withdrawal.

And of course never questioned is the quality of the "treatment" received by the "mentally ill" including people who go on to commit crimes. Itr's always assumed that psychiatric treatment in the mental death system is salutary. But it's invariably degrading and destructive--and it's a wonder it does not turn more people into killers.
But Katy and David--as spokespersons for Mad pride-- were given time to demonstrate their intelligence so the show was a success.
Seth, renegade psychologist

I think Lee's commentary on the ABC show is telling.

Clearly, the Mad Pride movement is not just advocating against forced confinement, not just against the Big Pharma establishment (and who is for either of those?), but to try to get those with (what society calls) mental illness not to take medication -- period.

I happen to believe my current prescriptions help me. And I certainly believe, after I've struggled with dozens of medication changes (including disastrous ones like Zyprexa) just like so many others, that I make that decision with informed consent.

And just as I, like others, want people suspected by others of having mental illness (even if they themselves don't believe they have it, or that the concept is false) to be able to pursue their own course of treatment, I certainly want the freedom to pursue my own course of treatment as well.

NO ONE should be stigmatized for making the choices they feel are right to save their own lives.

Larry- wrong. Many, many people involved in this movement take meds.

Larry, it sounds like you really don't understand the Mad Movement. Nobody has a problem with people taking psych meds. The issue is informed consent.

"Real academic psychiatrists" have nothing to fear if they behave ethically and follow the rules. Sadly, that's lost on some of you. Yes, Grassley does rock.

I think/hope the impact of ABC's program on Mad Pride will be more positive than negative however I had a few concerns.
1. When is the mainstream media going to wake up to the fact that there are other theories and schools of thoughts regarding the cause(s) of mental illness besides the biological psychiatry chemical imbalance theory?
2. When is the mainstream media going to do an informed in depth report on effective alternative treatments for depression and bipolar disorder and yes even schizophrenia?
(Detailed in the book: How to Heal Depression and Bipolar Disorder without drugs by Gracelyn Guyol)
3. When is the mainstream media going to report on people recovering from psychosis and schizophrenia who go on to lead productive lives?
4. When is the mainstream media going to talk about the connection between trauma and the development of mental illness?
When are they finally going to bring their "A" game and do their "homework"?
Oh well, I won't hold my breath!
In the meantime we have to tell our own stories, advocate for one another and make very wise use of technology to promote the need for informed consent and choice of treatment. And yes that includes using Meds as long as its of your own free will!

Francesca and Kimbriel:

I have been personally berated, on this site and on others, by self-avowed members of Mad Pride for THE VERY FACT of my taking medication.

They may not represent all of Mad Pride, but they surely represent a key segment of it -- and Lee's commentary, IMO, represents my experiences with this key segment quite accurately.

Larry- maybe you should look at The Icarus Project discussion board. LOTS of people are on psych drugs. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the movement. I had such a terrible experience with psych drugs and psychiatry that it's sometimes hard for me to remember that some people DO find relief from psych drugs.

The is nothing in Lee's piece that suggests everyone should stop taking meds. In fact he explicitly says that informed consent is what the Freedom Center advocates and as a representative of it, he as well. And that is certainly my understanding as well. It seems you are looking to find your impression that those who align themselves with the Mad Movement fit your idea, Larry. That they think no one should take drugs and that they try to force that on others. That is completely wrong.

Larry, you said "I have been personally berated, on this site and on others, by self-avowed members of Mad Pride for THE VERY FACT of my taking medication."

That is terrible and shouldn't have happened. Everybody should be free to pursue whatever path to health they desire.

Then, you said "They may not represent all of Mad Pride, but they surely represent a key segment of it ...."

No, they really don't. The key segment of Mad Pride is informed consent. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Could you find me an example on this website so I can know what you're talking about?

I was in Norway when the Mad Pride segment ran on ABC-TV Primetime, so I have not yet viewed it. So glad to read the kind words posted here about my attempt to get our voice in there. We knew, absolutely knew, from the start, that this was a high risk experience with no guarantees. But we decided to take the risk anyway.

Fascinating conversation here, thanks for offering this space for people to discuss this mass media coverage. Given that we are connected to other social change movements, one of them certainly are activists challenging corporate mainstream media, which bears a big part of the responsibility for the promotion of psychiatric oppression in our society.

One advantage of being in Norway was I surrounded by a wonderful community of long-term amazing psychiatric rights activists, psychiatric survivors, filmmakers, dissident psychiatrists and more. This community helped ease the roller coaster of trying to figure out "The Mouse's" next move (Disney owns ABC-TV, and in the trade Disney is called the "Mouse House).

Phillip, I think you nailed a key point: Domestic abuse is domestic abuse. Physical threats are physical threats. There is not a 'rational' domestic abuse, and an 'irrational' domestic abuse. It's just plain wrong. Period. There's no 'rational' physical threats of an innocent person, and 'irrational physical threats of an innocent person.' It's just plain wrong. Again, I have not seen the episode, or reviewed the facts in this, but if a family member displays a high level of physical threats, one must turn to criminal law system, as flawed as it is, to get some support from society to try to keep safe. Where I disagree with you would be that while society has a right under criminal justice system to intervene, and even intervene creatively, it shouldn't be able to force a brain damaging chemical into people under any circumstances.

I understand an individual here has felt mocked, put down or criticized for choosing to take a prescribed psychiatric drugs. I can't speak for an entire movement -- and "Mad Pride" is an open movement that no one owns. But I can speak for MindFreedom International about our guidelines. We absolutely have a position of working together "in a spirit of mutual cooperation," the first six words of our mission statement. Sure, some people may make mistakes, but we are pro-choice, we welcome a WIDE diversity of people with a huge range of perspectives. I personally know many of our members who choose to take prescribed psychiatric drugs in our movement, and our group. They tell me they are comfortable. And in fact, more than comfortable, IT'S THEIR LIVES MOST AT STAKE. When the drug companies lie, when non-drug alternatives are suppressed that impacts people take prescribed psychiatric drugs! That's because the people I know doing well on psychiatric drugs ALSO do a lot of other things TOGETHER. When a law is passed to force people to take psychiatric drugs, guess whose lives are most at stake? PEOPLE TO CURRENTLY TAKE PRESCRIBED PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS. They're the ones most likely to lose the opportunity to choose when, how and at what dose to take prescribed psychiatric drugs.

An absolutely key part of our movement is actually CHOICE. We need that key to break open the mad movement to the general public. This issue is not a war between different approaches. Our movement is not about a civil war over a treatment. It's a nonviolent revolution. This is about democracy getting its paws on the topic of mental and emotional well being, especially for people in crisis.

So, sure, some individuals will blow it. I well remember the horror of one of our members calling people who take psychiatric drugs "junkies." But we acted immediately, we made sure this kind of personal abuse did NOT happen in our forums, and that member is long gone from MindFreedom. We took immediate action to maintain a safe environment for ALL our members. The same ought to apply to MAD PRIDE.

Anyway, if anyone knows how I can view the episode let me know. ABC is sending me a DVD... and my brother-in-law's girlfriend may have recorded it.... And in mid-September it goes on sale on ABC web site... but I'd like to see it before then!

In support,

David

David W. Oaks, Director
MindFreedom International

UNITE for a nonviolent revolution in mental health