It does sound like something was wrong with this kid from the get go but I don't think it was "schizophrenia." I'd sure like to know the mother's medical history and what was going on during pregnancy. Also wonder just how many vaccinations a girl who was already apparently vulnerable to chemical toxicity got. Whatever neurological problems were causing this girl to be unable to sleep and to fly into rages I am pretty darn sure that powerful neuroleptics, stimulants, antidepressants and God knows what else were not the therapy she needed. This is criminal stuff and this girl is going to be disabled for life or maybe already is if something drastically different doesn't commence very soon.

"Hell is other people." In this case espcially a father, who believes his daughter will be suffering from some mysterious disease, the validity of which yet has to be proven, that the "experts" have chosen to label her with. In order to escape having to face the truth, that probably is to be found somewhere around what Sara is into. Add to that, that the drugs often make things worse, not better. Criminal stuff, yeah.

There isn't any convincing evidence that vaccines cause mental disorders like autism or schizophrenia. How do you even measure a girl's vulnerability to vaccines, and why would doctors think she was any different from any of the other kids that got the same shots and go on to lead healthy lives? Also, how would her medical history during pregnancy play a role in the kid's early onset schizophrenia? Even though it's rare, it's entirely possible that the illness can, and does, happen to young kids. And, like Jani's psychiatrist says, the illness is many times worse when it hits young ones.

The girl has severe hallucinations and delusions daily, has beat up her parents and other kids (I'm not blaming her at all), almost killed herself, and yet it's criminal the parents and her doctors are trying everything in their powers to control the girl? What should they do instead? Let Jani claw their faces off, run into traffic, or jump out a window? I hate antipsychotics, but in this girl's situation, I don't see what else might help. I know the drugs are scary, and they aren't that effective in some people, but there's nothing better out there (sadly) for the girl.

It's a good article detailing the lack of services for mentally ill patients as well as lack of respite caregivers for parents. Unless a child is DDD, (autism, Down's, etc qualify)there is just NOTHING out there for parents of kids with SZ.

That child will, unless the parents have unlimited income, end up on medicaid/medicare and in low-income housing and receiving less than adequate care, especially because she is only 6 years old.

This system is not designed to truly care for mentally ill people in our country, and it is one part of health care reform that is not being discussed at all or enough.

Just finding the right med is not the goal. This is a lifetime of housing, doctor bills, independent living, education, and just like anyone else she deserves the best.

I know the reality and it's not a good picture.

As far as the mother's pregnancy being questioned? I'm the mother of 3 kids, never even took an advil, never caffeine, was a health-food junkie, in good shape.

To this day, I have no answers , except that the beginning of psych medication use started the road my daughter is on today, and it's so fucked up that really we will never know how or why, it is JUST THE WAY IT IS, and that is a bitter pill to swallow every single day!

1. this girl does not have schizophrenia.
2. moban is not a new drug.

3. based on 1 and 2, my opinion is that this girl is getting terrible care. sad. visual hallucinations are a strong clue that a problem is not schizophrenia, but that another, 'organic,' cause should be sought. poisoning, head injury, stroke, etc.

'it was impossible to overstimulate her.' again, this is not schizophrenia. by schneiderian 'first-rank' tradition, etc.

They put my daughter through all of those 'organic' tests. Extensive genetics testing, MRI's all of it. $250,000 later no answers. A decade of dozens of doctors, all levels of care (the 250K was uncompesated care funds at a very prestigious hospital).No answers.

There are no answers, and there are no conclusive tests for mental illness and the drugs obviously don't work or this wouldn't be a discussion.

There's a study that shows Schizophrenics live longer and more quality lives off of medications and coping with symptoms on their own.

Scott, if you don't understand how a mother's medical history before and during pregnancy might affect a child's vulnerability to neurological problems and toxicity then I don't think you understand fetal development very well. Also if I had a child who was extremely agitated from birth, not sleeping and throwing tantrums I would be very careful about exactly what vaccines she/he was getting. I'm not saying I wouldn't give her any vaccines but I'd be darn sure I wasn't taxing the immune system any more than I absolutely had to. I think this kid has some kind of autoimmune disorder, not schizophrenia, or some kind of toxicity.

Psychosis is triggered by trauma and stress, not just genetics. If this kid has so called symptoms of schizophrenia then there is some trauma or stress somewhere in her environment that's precipitated it. It's not coming out of nowhere. It could well be physical or chemical dating back to the womb. Neuroleptics and their ilk may calm psychiatric symptoms briefly because of their heavy sedating effects but in the long run they just make them worse -- more hallucinations, more delusions, more agitation, more anxiety. What kid have we ever seen who was on heavy doses of these drugs who is not acting out more than ever before? It's not their "disease" -- it's the treatment. You don't have to read very far to figure this out. Please get this girl some alternative care ASAP and find some withdrawal resources that really understand just how slowly she has to be taken off this stuff not to get rebound.

*Opinion Only*

Here's the obvious problem as I see it.

There appears to be many unanswered questions, and very few answers.

Why is there such a desperate need to place a label on an unknown cause; and then treat it with known harmful chemical restrains.

So in all realistic essence treating only behavioral symptoms and nothing else.

I guess the medical community has forgotten that chemicals are the most intrusive form of behavioral control. They should set aside these potent harmful drugs as behavioral restrains in extremely rare cases, and as a very last resort only. {I have personally seen very violent behavior controlled successfully without the use of dangerous drugs; adding to this picture that a three year old is not exactly a huge physical threat to many to be quite honest}

Why not drugs: because of their harmful and disabling side effects that are proven to be much more severe in children. {a child at three years with a 1% brain mass loss per year due to medications has very little chance at any recovery or a functional future life in fact}

If you can't treat it, sometimes it is better to do nothing and just wait. That's a hard truth for desperate parents, and "know it all" doctors to diagest I'm sure.

But it's better than using a shotgun approach in a vain attempt at killing what you don't even know is there.

This following quoted statement used here in comment section is pure conjecture with no proof!

"Jani's psychiatrist says, the illness is many times worse when it hits young ones"

Please show me the confirmed and reliable scientific evidence of this being fact? This is just the psychiatric propaganda machine at work once more.

No one knows how impossibly hard it must be to raise this child, so I don't know how anyone could be labeling his actions criminal. It's not his or the mother's fault they are taking the advice of professionals.

Sara, you have a good point about the vaccines. Even though I don't think there is any scientific evidence showing a link between them and mental disorders, being careful about giving multiple vaccines at a time to a girl like Jani would be a good idea. I believe it's possible they could exacerbate erratic behavior, but most parents believe what their doctors tell them: that they're safe. Now that she's had the vaccines, is there a way to ameliorate her reaction to them, if that's the cause, without resorting to antipsychotics? I know there are a lot of alternative methods, but are they going to be effective? By no means am I implying that antipsychotics are that effective either - especially from reading what's going on with Jani. I want to know of a way she can be safe with herself and others without using them. If there are effective ways to do it, it'd probably be prudent the new method would be used complementarily with the APs until there were good indications that they were working, then to gradually reduce the APs and eventually eliminate them.

One thing that makes me question the effectiveness of alternative medicine is if the alternatives were so effective, then why don't we hear more about the miracles they work? Is it the drug companies suppressing data? Why aren't the success stories written all over the vast amount of mental illness forums? Don't you think that if supplements worked so well for mental illnesses and other ailments, then drug companies would be using their ingredients and marketing their own brand of drug derived from those ingredients? To me, it seems obvious they would because it'd mean effective treatments without all the nasty side effects. If you don't believe the drug companies would do such a thing, consider this as an example: yesterday I was checking out Newsweek and ran across a drug ad for Niaspan. It's an extended release form of Niacin, and it's for reducing arterial plaque.

What would cure or lessen the girl's hallucinations and disturbing behaviors if it was stroke, poisoning, or head trauma? I realize that if one of those conditions was the cause of her behavior, then it wouldn't be schizophrenia, but her symptoms still would match those of the illness. If it's head trauma or stroke, does that mean what she's experiencing is going to be permanent? Wouldn't she have a damaged brain? Would it mean there's nothing to help her?

I know if she was my kid, I'd try all the alternatives in the world before a lifetime of antipsychotics, but if she still was plagued by what she's experiencing now, then what? Let her harm herself or others and live a life of constant worry and 24/7 vigilance of the child? If the parents took her off the APs right now, they'd likely have to use restraints and keep her locked in her room a lot, or potentially risk the kid killing herself. It's a sh*tty situation to say the least.

More questions,

I was just repeating what the psychiatrist said. I know by how I phrased it, it means I know for a fact that the doctor is right. I don't. When I read that a doctor says something, it makes me believe he/she is correct. Most of the time the doctor is stating a fact, but concerning psychiatry, I think it's mostly conjecture.

I know what it's like

http://bipolarsoupkitchen-stephany.blogspot.com/2009/06/6-year-old-girl-has-schizophrenia.html

Jani's life is now in the psych system, she will be on medications until she can decide for herself, and I fear after what I've seen for a decade behind the scenes, is that she will not live that long.

She's in 1st grade!

Scott; thank you for the clarification on the doctors statement. So many times people will read articles like this and take what a doctor says as scientific fact "the psychiatric gospel so to speak"; when it is anything but.

Working with the developmentally disabled with supposed dual diagnosis of mental illness. I have personally seen more than my share of aggressive, self abusive, and diminished capacity in personal behavioral responses.

There are other less intrusive behavioral controls which can include physical limitation devices for protection of self and others that can be personalized for each specific individual and case.

helmets, gloves, etc., and creating a safe controlled environmental setting as with this case where the child appears to need and improve with lots and lots of external stimulus.

A farm or rural setting and lots of open spaces would seem appropriate at least in some form.

Then when you take into account that this child has exceptional intellect and has some pretty amazing abilities to communicate exactly whats going on with her.

An approach using challenging and innovative materials to keep her mind busy and occupied would be worth some consideration also.

I sure hope that thinking outside the psychiatric box would be used in this and many other cases involving children.

I'm not sure the "throw your arms in the air" and saying "there no hope" gives anything but a gloom and doom outlook for the child. Plus the whole denial and encouraging that these hallucinations are not real may be doing this child an complete injustice.

Let us remember this stimulus and perceptions are very real to her and are going to be a significant part of her developmental process. If you devalue her life experience, I would tend to believe as a child you are also devaluing her. {I would believe anyone that has been around children would admit if they feel devalued, behavioral manifestations can and do occur}

Maybe a more softened approach of mutual validation would show more promise in the long term. "Kind of a what you see is valid and real for you, but I don't experience what you do in a the broader world". Hopefully over TIME a functional separation can be achieved. no ones knows.

Hopefully with great effort there is an onus on the child learning what is real for her, and then processing what is acceptable in the generalized real world for everyone else. No small endeavor, but again why not climb out the box.

This in a wonderful and intelligent six year old child we are talking about here after all.

I personally happen to believe all means are worth a try before we send her down a treatment modality road we know will sentence her to a life of poor and diminished quality, damaging if not life ending chemical restrain, and at some point long term institutionalization and all the abuses that entails.

This is undoubtedly heart breaking subject matter, but worth the discussion it brings forth.

I just threw out a few ideas here; there are countless more out there when we as a community decide to start thinking differently about mental health issues.

You can't put imagination of a child into the adult concept of schizophrenia.
That she hears "voices" was put onto her, taught to her to describe her imagination as external voices.
Then with practice the voices of imagination can become more developed.
Normal people temped by their vices of say for example food or alcohol, know that voice to eat just a little more, or drink a little more, comes from themselves. A child taught to believe temptations and imagination are "voices" will do so.

I'm really just trying to make the point that the meds do not really ameliorate behavior in any constructive way and in fact exacerbate it. They are crazy making drugs so please don't think they are a last resort. At this point it's really hard to say what is Jani's own behavior due to her neurological challenges and what's due to adverse effects of drugs. I really believe this and I'm sorry if I'm offending parents of difficult kids. I'm very, very sorry that you are facing these horrific challenges. I mean that. I am really not saying a little Omega fish oil will solve the problem. I know it's harder than that -- a lot harder. But at the same time I think that unless parents understand withdrawal and getting off the drugs safely they will never really know what they are really dealing with. Withdrawal in these kids is a huge, huge challenge and there is never any discussion about it at all. Doctors are incredibly cavalier and ignorant about withdrawal.

I think this is a really good discussion here.

I think the sad truth is, I would bet my life that NO EXTENSIVE testing was done on this girl. Okay, possibly, they gave her an MRI and tested her thyroid. But other than that, nada.

I watched my cousin go from bright, happy, articulate, charismatic, and beautiful to catatonic. She was raped and after the trauma was labeled "bipolar". The drugs made her steadily worse, until she was upgraded to schizophrenia. She is now catatonic and living in a group home. I have no idea whether she is happy or not, she doesn't speak. I haven't seen her smile in a long time.

THESE are the "miracle" drugs.

i think this is an awesome discussion. i wish i had more to tell the parents other than schizophrenia is just a place-holder name for her problems until some thing more realistic is determined, plus the advice from others posting here - such as: if the kid has a problem, and you get her to take meds for the problem, and the problem stays the same or gets worse, then cut out the meds. One thing the story does not portray is the timeline of events. When I read these extreme-psychiatry stories, I am aware that the problematic behaviors can emerge because of treatment - as side effects of meds, as power struggles with kids, etc. my young child starts to get cabin fever if he can't play outside for a couple days. a 6 year old needs to run around and play, even if he or she has these behavioral problems. if the child is so closely monitored, etc., she may not be getting normal playtime.

No one here, regardless credentials, is in a position to diagnose a child based on a mere newspaper article. Regrettably, stories like this invariably become political footballs for people who feel passionately on either side of the psychiatric fence.

It's a problem I see a lot: inductive reasoning to satisfy one's ideological position.

Very little scientific significance can be drawn from a single case study, much less one written by a journalist with no apparent scientific or psychiatric background.

It's important for me to point this out because the anti-psychiatry types are often just as bad as the status quo types when it comes to jockeying for mental health political points.

What I draw from the article are important generalities, such as the failure of our health and mental health care systems to provide comprehensive diagnosis, care and treatment. In this case, both parents were working decent jobs, both middle class and white (?). The fact is, there are countless kids and families in mental health crisis falling through the cracks every minute of every day in America, but many of these families don't have the resourcefulness (insurance) to cope, or the hope to bother even considering taking their story to the media. They are too busy struggling to survive, and even if they did make it into the LA Times, the likely angles would be neglect, irresponsible parenting and poverty.

Hey after a decade of my daughter being tossed into this arena, I'm bankrupt and she lost her lifetime cap of inpatient hospital stays by private insurance by age 17.5 years old, and is now on Medicaid, with dozens of professionals having NO answers, trialed all the meds and is now disabled as a result.

Having insurance did nothing more than give the hospitals and doctors a higher payment, and that's the reality.

That child will be on state funded care before she is 18, and lost to the system, her parents will lose her to the state, because they do not have unlimited funds, and their plan to care for her won't last a decade. Follow her story for 10 years and see how she turns out, if she lives.

Skeptic, we don't need to know any more about Jani's diagnosis or lack therof to expound on the risks and adverse effects of psychiatric drug treatment. We know plenty about the latter and that whatever Jani's diagnosis is or should be, her treatment is not a good thing. But I will say you are certainly right that countless kids and families in crisis are falling through the cracks every single day and being given toxic treatments that make them a lot worse, not better. And they are not being properly informed at all about both the risks of starting treatment and the grave risks associated with trying to stop it. I call it Mis-Informed Consent.

"No one here, regardless credentials, is in a position to diagnose a child based on a mere newspaper article. Regrettably, stories like this invariably become political footballs for people who feel passionately on either side of the psychiatric fence."

Did you read the same article? This child is already diagnosed, stamped, and labeled for life.

"It's a problem I see a lot: inductive reasoning to satisfy one's ideological position"

I gather you're position isn't ideological based; since your throwing out the good old race card, like you know something everyone here doesn't.

Maybe you should stop and consider for just a moment that some of the people that post here have or have had children in a very similar situations. Their only ideological position was standing by watching a psychiatric modality destroy their child's life.

The fact that this particular family is middle class and white in all likelihood will just add to the tragedy. Since that medical coverage is not indefinite, and this kid at some juncture will be just like every other throw away child regardless of race in a brutal system on public assistance receiving uncaring, futile, and inadequate care.

Please spare me the same old tried diatribe and rhetoric.

"What I draw from the article are important generalities, such as the failure of our health and mental health care systems to provide comprehensive diagnosis, care and treatment."

You must mean that grand expert psychiatric scheme of drugging children into oblivion. Nice position you stand on, except for the fact its destroying and even killing children at an alarming and increasing rate.

Do we have to keep repeating the names and displaying the faces for you? Or would you prefer to just keep pointing fingers in the dark at those that present differing opinions and possibly better alternative options.

"It's important for me to point this out because the anti-psychiatry types are often just as bad as the status quo types when it comes to jockeying for mental health political points."

May I point out the seeking rational compassionate care is anything but political or ideological grand standing. I happen to find your comment steeped in your own personal ideology and bias.

How about stepping out of your little holier than thou box; or is that to uncomfortable when those walls are crumbling in all around you.

Maybe you can get an "anti-psychiatry" types a new diagnosis to bring before the DSM-V committee this time around; if they can only stop long enough to take a break from all that bar room brawl infighting.

I'm sure that as with your comment, would be completely non-politically or ideological of course.

Here, here, More Questions, and Bravo besides! Great comment and thanks for posting.

After posting my last comment I wondered if it was supposed to be "Hear, hear" instead of "Here, here" so I went to Google and found this. Kind of good for a laugh which we need around "here" http://unbecominglevity.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/11/10/3970914.html

I agree with Sara! bravo

You miss my point. Which doesn't surprise me.

The point is: you are reacting to a newspaper article and a diagnosis by offering up a sort of counter-diagnosis of your own - from your armchair. Pure conjecture. Ironically, I likely agree with you and your assessment, just not the heavy-handed presumptive way it's presented and the conclusions reached. Speaking of holier than thou.... Must be nice to able to read a journalist's account of one case, then have all the secrets and wrongdoings of the case conveniently at hand - without any direct details over and above a newspaper article.

You have zero first-hand insight into the case file of said child, except for the few details divulged by the reporter, which, yes, does include the diagnosis of schizophrenia from the child's psychiatrists. So what. That's really beside the point. To challenge that diagnosis, you need the case file, the skill and time needed to assess it. You have neither. Yet, you have all sorts of grand conclusions about the case. Bravo, indeed! I'm not suggesting your suspicions of this case are wrong, only that your zeal and passion for turning this into ideological win for the anti-psychiatry team is a tad unfounded and presumptuous.

And yes, class and race are very real factors in this issue. A kid on the wrong side of the tracks - his/her case never sees the light of day most often, rare or unusual as his/her condition may be.

Have a nice day.

"You miss my point. Which doesn't surprise me."

-Right Back at You-

Please again spare me the same old tried diatribe and rhetoric

Oh yes, and have a nice day

this has been a pretty civil discussion so far on a very emotional topic. let's please keep disagreements civil. thank you.

I agree with Philip. Let civil debate prevail. Any part of my response that crossed from civility to personal, retraction and apologies.

I do, however, get a bit defensive when I see the following type of ad hominem deduced from one of my 50-word observations:

"You must mean that grand expert psychiatric scheme of drugging children into oblivion. Nice position you stand on, except for the fact its destroying and even killing children at an alarming and increasing rate."

Dear More Questions,

If you've followed any of my past contributions, you'd likely not have drawn this conclusion about my opinions on drug therapy and mental health.

Once again, I'm always skeptical of leaps to conclusion, especially when such leaps are based on a journalist's re-telling of a single psychiatric story (Philip happens to be one of the better in the field). I certainly do not support any "grand expert psychiatric scheme of drugging children" - but I'll tell you what: Just because you and I share the same side of the fence doesn't mean I'm giving you a free pass if I think your argument is not sound. I would expect the same from you, but with a little less hyperbole and presumption about my own belief systems on these issues. Otherwise, you made some excellent points, and I share your general anger toward status quo psychiatry. This one case under discussion. So much don't know about the girl, her background, her case file, so I see it impossible to draw sweeping conclusions.

Schizophrenia is a tricky one for me. I don't understand the complexities at play. I don't believe drug therapy is, in and of itself, necessarily evil. There are few black & whites in mental health and I'm suspicious of anyone who suggests there are, regardless of what paradigm they subscribe to.

Keep the great articles flowing, Philip. This is really the only site I read regularly nowadays, and that says a lot coming from a recovering Internet junkie. :)

I am not an anti-psychiatrist, although I do share most of the espoused tenets, which really amount to good, hard, scientific critical thinking and questioning of authority.

Dear The Skeptic:

You took what appeared to be a fairly one sided position in your critical post.

So I retorted in kind.

Nothing personal, since it was issue and topic based. This happens to be a comment section and all about opinions.

I doubt seriously the Psychiatric profession, the FDA, Big Pharma, NAMI, or other like minded people come here in search of the Holy Grail.

I honestly wish I was wrong, because there is a lot to learn here even when the debates tend to get heated.

The middle ground I believe most here can agree upon is: "first do no harm"

I can only wish that was taking seriously in these times in which we live; but the evidence and real life results show quite a different conclusion.

If I'm labeled anti psychiatry for believing the modality does not hold water or stand up under scrutiny; then so be it. I will for once bear a label from psychiatry with esteemed honor and great pride.

If we had no opinions, we would not write anything and not feel the urge to write. To complain of backseat drivers is ridiculous, who is going to bother to write a comment if they don't have a strong opinion?
Children can not be mentally ill. Only adults are expected to be adult in controlling their emotional behaviour. When adults fail it's called mental illness.

Anyone discussing brain chemical imbalances is talking of neurology not psychiatry.

I'm less med-skeptic than most of you ... but a 6-year-old girl on mega-doses of Thorazine and Haldol, seemingly having no effect, gives me the shivers. I would have no idea how to treat someone so ill, let alone a child. (Though the parents moving into separate apartments is either La-La-Land goofiness or a sign of how little webbing is left in California's bankrupt safety net. Maybe both.)

However, there is one key point touched on in the article that no one has mentioned. Both of Jani's parents note to the reporter that they have battled depression all their lives. (Something they certainly wouldn't publicly disclose, let's face it, unless they as well as their doctors felt it was relevant to the case.)

So Jani's illness may not be schizophrenia, but that would indicate it to be SOMETHING in our spectrum of conditions. After all, if one jumps to the conclusion that it was vaccines, an undiscovered toxic waste dump in their neighborhood, etc., isn't one violating Ockham's Razor -- the principle of seeking the most simple, logical cause possible to an unexplained phenomenon? (Unless you believe depression is entirely environmental and never hereditary, of course.)

Of course, maybe it just means Jani is the victim of bad parenting, as some have told the Schofields to their face. But I highly doubt we as mental health consumers really want to go down that road.

If Jani's parents have been "battling depression all their lives," that puts up a huge red flag -- probably medicated their whole lives too. Yup, that's what I said, if Jani's mother was taking all sorts of crap either before and/or during her pregnancy that could well be a big part of Jani's problems. Wake up folks. This stuff is dangerous. And parents who are medicated are notorious for rushing to put their kids on the stuff too.

I guess we DO want to go down the road of bad parenting (sigh) ...

Larry: "I guess we DO want to go down the road of bad parenting (sigh) ..."

And why wouldn't we, Larry? Abuse, trauma, neglect, dysfunctionality, in whatever shape it comes, which does NOT necessarily and always have to be in the easily as abuse recognizable shape of, for instance, beatings, is a reality. And whenever it is a reality, it is additional abuse to deny the dysfunctionality: blame the victim - and protect the abuser. That's what psych labels are supposed to do. Especially when a six-year-old gets assaulted with a "schizophrenia" label.

Following doctor's orders and assurances that taking SSRIs during pregnancy was safe (as so many doctors did until recently) is not bad parenting if that is what happened. Neither is rushing to medicate when the whole system is geared up to do exactly that. But yes, it's true, I do believe Jani is probably suffering from the consequences of some of her parents' decisions. That's not the same as saying they were/are "bad parents."

I would not want to be the diagnostician trying to tease out any mental illness from the very natural tendancy of a very bright six-year old to thrive on the negative attention her symptoms provide--and to be happy to provide even more entertainment to the adults so carefully watching for them. Some--and only some--of what they're describing sounds more like the sort of confabulation one should expect from a small child in that situation, but nowhere in the article is this possibility mentioned.

Larry,

I think it's odd that we wouldn't consider going down the road of looking at what environmental factors might be contributing to this child's destructive behavior as well as her auditory hallucinations. Calling that "bad parenting" is perhaps a bad choice of words though it would seem on a basic common sense level that one thing to look at would be parenting that is somehow causing this child's behavior.

Problems with environment are the elephant in the room of the biopsychiatric model. If the child had symptoms of some physical problem like bruises or broken bones I think it would be a pretty safe bet someone would look to her environment. As in are the broken bones caused by physical abuse or maybe because the child has a visual problem that causes her to not see physical obstacles that others can or any other myriad of things. If a child was underweight, a doctor might analyze her diet, but somehow the social stigma against even looking at whether a child with behavioral problems is being treated in a way that contributes to her problems by her parents seems to be politically incorrect these days.

Of course not even any two psychiatrists can agree on a definitive checklist of symptoms for diagnosing "schizophrenia." It's just a wastebasket label.

I think the article Phillip mentions points to some indicators her problems may in fact have developed as a reasonable and expected response to her life at home though probably not to deliberate bad parenting.

First this:

"The principal called the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and reported that the parents had abandoned their misbehaving child."

This tends to indicate that someone had reason to suspect that the girl was not receiving acceptable care at home.

Then this:

"Born Aug. 8, 2002, Jani was different from the start, sleeping fitfully for only about four hours a day. Most infants sleep 14 to 16 hours a day. Only constant, high-energy stimulation kept Jani from screaming.

"For the first 18 months, we would take her to malls, play areas, IKEA, anywhere we could find crowds," says Michael, 33. "It was impossible to overstimulate her. We would leave at 8 in the morning and be gone for 14 hours. We could not come home until Jani had been worn out enough so that she would sleep a couple of hours."

I'm not sure that most infants sleep 14 to 16 hours a day. It sounds like her parents were unprepared for the constant vigilance that caring for an infant requires and when she cried instead of physically nurturing her they took her "around crowds," in other words they didn't either touch her and hold her until the crying stopped or let her cry until she stopped but instead abandoned her to a scary world of strangers. Perhaps this abandonment caused her to develop an imaginary world as a coping mechanism, after all when she was energetic the people she knew didn't want contact around her and one can only imagine how inconsistent at best the contact she got from "crowds" was to a developing psyche. And then there's IKEA. I know from personal experience that IKEA has an excellent children's play area but the sort of parents who abandon their children to it because all parenting of infants is exhausted is probably not helpful to the child developing a normal way of relating to her environment. After all you can't develop a normal way of relating to your environment if you've never been in a normal environment.

And then this from the article:

"Both Michael and Susan have relatives who were mentally ill, and both struggle with depression and take antidepressants."

Struggle with depression tends to indicate that that are unhappy and spend a lot of time trying to sleep. Also, they probably aren't very physically active as the treatment for "struggling with depression" tends to be upping the doses of sedating drugs. So like any other doped up folks who lie around the house they are bothered by loud noises like the normal sound of an infant crying and instead of attending to her drop her off at the IKEA play area! I'm taking a turn on the ineffective parenting road.

Of course then we get this: "They receive no help from their families."

One assumes this information comes from the self reports of the parents, not from an investigation of the family by a reporter. Assuming this is correct what it means is (combined with the statement that they have relatives who are mentally ill) these are people who think that people who don't do what they want them to, i.e. their families who don't help them, their infant who doesn't sleep as much they wanted her to, are mentally ill.

And the child, obviously getting worse and worse with treatment, well, "mental illness" is the only condition I know of where if a treatment is making the "patient" sicker you try more of it instead of changing it.

Sad story of girl labeled schizophrenic and then tortured because of the bad behavior of adults in her life.

Sara:

Thanks for clarifying.

Sally and Marian:

Unless you think the parents are lying when they say they have mental health issues as well (and that's an awful lot of extrapolating, not that this comment thread hasn't seen that already), isn't that "blaming the victims" too?

Well, looks like those parents are convicted in this thread of being rotten parents! not that once in a psychiatrist's office the coercion comes into play, the "i'm the doctor", and the trust ppl in general have in doctors and places like UCLA; hell, let's fry them in the frying pan!

Damn the doctors that started my daughter on an antidepressant for bed wetting and damn the rest of them for drugging her up against my wishes as a parent esp in the adult psych wards!

Damn the doctor that convinced me I needed Xanax to cope! and call me a complete and utter fool, idiot and bad parent while you're at it!

The medicine they are putting her on can be more dangerous for her then her disease by itself. I feel for this little girl. I pray for her, her family, and that she can find some peace in her life.

Larry,

You write: "Unless you think the parents are lying when they say they have mental health issues as well (and that's an awful lot of extrapolating, not that this comment thread hasn't seen that already), isn't that "blaming the victims" too?"

I think once you have a child, you are never the victim of your child. It seems like they have made some decisions in the care of their child that have harmed the child regardless of their intention, from the text of the article, assuming it's all true.

The thing about taking your crying baby out in public is just a serious problem. And "struggling with depression," well I'm sorry if you have some purported condition that prevents you from functioning and still decide to have a child, I have little sympathy for you. Many people who think they have a medical disease called depression also think they are cured by drugs and/or therapy.

Struggling with depression is a term the folks who still feel beaten down by this purported condition use to excuse themselves from the normal adult responsibilities of living. People who feel they have this inability to cope with life, well again, why should we hold them to a lower parenting standard and expect their children not to suffer?

Stephany,

There are bad parents out there. You are not one. I can see how your perspective on this story would be different from mine and I didn't mean you any slight.

Please notice this little girl has a genius IQ and an obsession with units of time and numbers. That's bizarre enough, but in a girl named "January" it's downright spooky. She is also sexually precocious -- at six! Schizophrenic? That diagnosis is a plain indication of the intellectual and spiritual poverty of psychiatry. But in order to shoot her up with brain-destroying drugs you must first have a DSM-IV slot in which to place your victim. Here is a classic illustration of the toxic nature of western science and medicine. At the very least, this girl needs patient, caring analysis, based on the most comprehensive and painstaking recording of her gnomic and revealing utterances. She should have access to art and music therapy, and have every opportunity for aesthetic self-expression. We should be trying to learn from her, instead of extinguishing a struggling soul we cannot fathom.

Larry: I only have one thing to add to Sally's comment: Doing the wrong thing isn't inexusable. But doing the wrong thing, and insisting on that it was the right thing to do, although you know better, is.

What is it, that makes everybody cry out in indignation as soon as they are asked to take the least responsibility for their actions and decisions? Is it maybe that you can't forgive yourself?

I believe Jani is a genius too, and her brilliant person that she is will be completely destroyed, soul and all by the drugs.

Sally, thanks I get wound up about this, I've seen it all, and those fancy pants hospitals really shove this stuff onto parents. I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't. They always scrutinized me, and even my daughter--they always insisted she abused drugs or drank! the kid watch Animal Planet!

I saw her spirit completely snuffed out, by these drugs and whatever is up with Jani in that story, we all know one thing: she's doomed in this system.

Her outcome now in my opinion depends on an outside party coming in and taking her and focusing on non-medicated approach. Her parents can't handle her and she deserves better.

I would just like to say this has been an interesting discussion with lots of hearty rational ideas being tossed about with some pretty good arguments.

In my opinion there is always more than enough blame to share. Though I would like to express this one point: How many times does psychiatry and like entities first blame the patient, then the so called disease, and if that doesn't work; they in the end blame the parents. The modality "never" takes responsibility for the damage they directly cause.

I'm hoping at some point the primary focus turns back to what can be done that is reasonable in helping this child get back to the business of just being a child.

My great fear is she may already be on the futile road to unrepairable damage and a life of institutionalization.

When a child's life hangs in the balance; the sad irony is there is no "Informed Consent" or "Personal Choice' involved in the equation.

I have mixed feelings about this story. The first thing that stood out to me was the statment that the child didn't sleep. Lack of sleep will make people act really crazy. I know that when I was loaded up on all the stimulants my doc gave me (ritalin, concerta, etc, + antidepressants) I went from sleeping a lot to rarely sleeping. I became very paranoid and lashed out at people. I would imagine people who are deprived of sleep for whatever reason can behave very much like people with schizophrenia.

I think the parents in this story love their child. I do think they mean well, but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the child had been born into a family that wasn't already so focused on mental issues.

I know a woman who has seen psychiatrists for years complete with the usual abundance of meds. She and her husband love their child, but their parenting is very inconsistent. The child who is four years old is already being sent to therapy. I think the parents are looking for a mental illness because that's the lens through which they view the world. If the child has an imaginary friend, then it must be psychosis. If the child is defiant and flying into rages, then there must be a mental illness. I do think having two parents who are depressed impacts their children. How could it not?

With all of that being said, however, I also have to realize how caught up I got in my own diagnosis. Even though I'm skeptical by nature, I did get caught up in believing what I was told. I began to believe I truly had a chemical imbalance and that I would spend my life chronically ill. Therefore, it's difficult for me to look too harshly at these parents. I, too, believed the doctors. They can be quite convincing.

I wish our culture wasn't so preoccupied with looking for mental illness at every turn, because I fear we find what we're looking for.

"I wish our culture wasn't so preoccupied with looking for mental illness at every turn, because I fear we find what we're looking for."
So true!

www.januaryfirst.org

this is a really hard case to judge. I am not a doctor and I cannot criticize the parents. It sounds like a lot of behavior was happening before the medication (and unfortunately on it).

So who is right? With all the self righteous indignation of people saying she is victimized by psychiatry, her parents choices, or is just fine as she is, who is right? Finding a way to deal with the girl's behavior may be like splitting hairs, and we may never know how to fix it.

Maybe we can just live it. I don't know. If your child were like Jani, what would be right?

I can relate in some ways: I have had a sleep disorder, severe like Jani's since childhood. Not sleeping can drive you mad.

I have had stupid experiences with psychiatrists, some help from medication, but mostly really stupid experiences with psychiatrists. Some people have better experiences, some don't.

There are questions out there that are too big for even the smartest person to answer on this topic.

-A child without an advocate or informed consent-

The following quotes are from:

http://www.januaryfirst.org/www.januaryfirst.org/About_Me.html

This is "Jani's" parents web site:

-----------------------------------------

"The violence became so bad that at times Susan and I both lost it and hit Jani as hard as we could. We hit in impotent rage.

We got a referral to a psychiatrist.

Two months later, Janni was hospitalized for the first of what has since been four times, but in truth will be many more times.

Today, Jani is no longer a brat. Today, Jani is schizophrenic."

-----------------------------------------

Where is or was CPS (child protective services)?

These parents are right in one respect; she is no longer a brat, she is now just an abuse victim in so many ways.

In reading their blog, they have admitted they have given up on Jani. They are willing to drug her into submission no matter what the outcome or results.

Clozaril in now the behavioral restraint of choice; just leaving us more unanswered questions, and very few answers that won't make most cringe.

a link to my article, "my advice to the parents of the 6 year old diagnosed with schizophrenia"

I do have questions after reading a good part of that blog. Does Susan have a diagnosis of bipolar and has she been medicated for a long time? I think she is one of the hosts for a radio show called Bipolar Nation. Was she medicated while she was carrying Jani?

To me these parents should be trying to contact either Grace Jackson who has been able to get a number of other children off antipsychotics to positive effect and/or Peter Breggin. I still say that I am really sorry for this little girl. There is no way the drugs her dad mentions can really be doing her any good long term. She's a very cute looking little girl. It's terribly sad.

I am shocked and disgusted to read on Jani's father's blog, that he openly admits to beating her and starving her in attempt to "break her"; before they did the psych meds and hospitals.

It is a case of child abuse! It's the saddest thing I ever read! The father says in a comment back to me that he believes the drugs have saved her life.

What about trauma and being beaten? what about that?!

Sally:

For the record, I decided not to have children due to my "purported condition." Take of that what you will.

Do all of us in the Furious Seasons community have "purported conditions"? And if they are merely purported, why does this community even exist?

Stephany writes, "I am shocked and disgusted to read on Jani's father's blog, that he openly admits to beating her and starving her in attempt to "break her"; before they did the psych meds and hospitals."

Disgusting. Gee, is it any wonder why the child has problems? Meanwhile, the child shrinks will just keep medicating the hell out of her all the while ignoring the family dysfunction.

I just wanted to thank people like Lee and The Skeptic, who eloquently voiced concerns that I have as well - debate should be just that, and not judgment. We do not know all the facts, and must remember that any opinions (which of course we have full rights to have) are speculation. I often see people engage in discussions like this and it becomes personal - an attack on the victim, the parents, other posters, etc. However, mostly I really enjoy the discussions on furriousseasons. I just think they could be better :)

I believe there is a time for judgement, and when a father admits he has beaten and starved his child then I would hope people would stand up and say that's inexcusable, not to mention illegal.

The whole thing is sad.

Larry,

You write:

"For the record, I decided not to have children due to my "purported condition." Take of that what you will."

I think if you don't think you are able to raise a child, not having one is an excellent choice whether it's because you believe you have a purported mental condition or for some other reason. I haven't had children yet because I've never been in a financially safe place where I could care from them. So much trouble in the world imho comes from people having children they don't want to take the time to care for or are unable to care for.

Then you write:

"Do all of us in the Furious Seasons community have "purported conditions"? And if they are merely purported, why does this community even exist?""

My position on this is a radical one. Mental illness is a myth. The communities form as reactions to the labels. Here's a link to some of the line of thinking I find helpful.

http://www.szasz.com/isdepressionadiseasetranscript.html

Many people who accept their psych labels find this sort of thing offensive and insulting. I hope you don't.

FOR JANI"S PARENTS

REASEARCH GLUTEN AND CAISEN FREE DIET AND SCHIZOPHRENIA> CHANGING HER DIET WILL HELP WITH SYMPTOMS>

Sally:

I well understood that you think mental illness is a myth.

My question was, if mental illness IS a myth, how and why do those of us in the Furious Seasons community have anything in common and, therefore, have any need to be here?

Larry: You actually have a very good point there, and I sometimes do ask myself how it is that I, who does believe that there is emotional distress and extreme states of mind, but not that it's got anything to do with illness, identify with a community of people, who are labelled "mentally ill", and who spend their time discussing this myth and everything related. I think the answer is, that the myth is very real and alive in society, and unless I leave society as such (and move to a mountain top in the Himalaya), I risk at any given time to be made a victim of it by society, the same way Jani for instance now is a victim of it. So, one common interest probably is to "demystify", in order to make society a safer place to be in for those of us, who experience the myth to be a very real threat to both our bodies and our souls.

It's the same common interest, that always has brought and brings in one way or the other oppressed and discriminated against people together: our human rights.

And even if there was free choice, and no (threat of) coercion involved anymore, there would still be one other common interest left: the experience of emotional distress and extreme states of mind as such. Certainly though, an exchange on that part of the matter would look - and does indeed look where it takes place - somewhat different from comment threads like the one at this post.

I asked a question on the other article re: Jani. Has anyone contacted CPS?

Regardless of whether she is schizophrenic, mis-diagnosed, abused or otherwise, has anyone made a proactive attempt with regards to what they believe, try to prove it, and try to help the girl, or her family?

If not then this girl's, and this family's life has become sadly, a political football.

We are doing nothing proactive by arguing it on here.

I just went throught the same thing with my young teenager, with ucla the same doctors and Georgea. this took years to finally find the right meds. this was and is the worse thing that ever happened to HER and to us. I still cant beleive she's SZ. Your daughter seems like my daughter, even though she's only 6 years old . UCLA IS THE BEST. THEY SAVED MY DAUGHTER's LIFE. no one knows what its like having a child with sz, unless you walk in their shoes. and i have. Your doing the best that this earth has to offer. Hang in there

It has to be trauma. Some sort of trauma. Why did she scream only when her parents were inside...she must have been afraid. If she was 'born mentally ill' then maybe there was something went wrong in the pregnancy? Did the mother use drugs or take anti-depressents while she was pregnant? Wow that would be a blow, if the anti-depressents caused this...what a spin. I doubt any alterior motives of the parents...but I can't imagine how dumb they must be to let their child be drugged on 100mgs of Thorazine! And others...uhhh what? She's like six? And they admit they aren't even working, for every pill there's a new imaginery friend??? And besides just letting her play, what techniques have they used...and maybe she is a little too young to understand it too. Maybe she'll grow out of it? I think of lots of possibilities. Could it be a form of dementia or something to do with memory...if the really high doses can't work then it probably doesnt have to do with dopamine!

Which is the whole thing behind schizophrenia, the dopamine and seratonin....then there's the way she reacted to the low dose of haldol...to be put on such extreme doses! Maybe she has been abused. Well, her extreme state would make it difficult...

It's kind of overwhelming as a story, but why the heck do they call it schizophrenia? As if to glamorize the foundation of lies its based on.

People with schizophrenia are generally less violent actually than people with depression disorders or so I have read.

It's all a matter of perspective. Who knows??

Well I hope for her that she becomes well. My last thought is DID or something, but I dont know much about that disorder....

But looking at the video--I had this feeling that if someone told her she was normal it might help.