Seems that it is not only substance abusers with schizophrenia who have an elevated risk for violence.

The Japanese alerted the public that people on antidepressants have an elevated risk for violence also.

Here is yesterday's news story out of Japan.

http://www.ssristories.com/show.php?item=3356

First two paragraphs read: "'Is the antidepressant I'm taking safe?' I am hearing this question from my patients more and more. The reason? The media has recently reported that among antidepressant users, some develop increased feelings of hostility or anxiety, and have even committed sudden acts of violence against others."

"The Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare has investigated the side-effects of antidepressants and has decided to revise the warnings on the medication, stating, 'There are cases where we cannot rule out a causal relationship with the medication'."

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/perspectives/news/20090521p2a00m0na011000c.html

I imagine that people with diabetes, for example, or IBS, even fibromyalgia, might be prone to being a little more violent if they were misusing illegal drugs. I can't see that schizophrenics would be any different.

In Japan they are more prone to be violent if they are also using antidepressants.

SSRI Stories has close to 3,100 cases of people who became violent or acted bizarrely while on antidepressants but SSRI Stories chose not to post any cases where illegal drugs were involved although there are some cases where alcohol was involved.

Here is one of the cases of violence involving a 17 year old boy which had neither illegal drugs, of course, nor alcohol.

http://ssristories.com/show.php?item=475

The fourth paragraph from the end reads: "Tests of Siesling's blood taken immediately after his arrest at the house that day show he hadn't been drinking alcohol, but he had a chemical called fluoxetine in his system. Fluoxetine is a major ingredient of the antidepressant Prozac".

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1073922625233040.xml

Admitted killer will blame split personality
Monday, January 12, 2004
By Doug Guthrie
The Grand Rapids Press
Jon Siesling has admitted to police that he killed his mother and two sisters, but court records indicate his trial will open this week with an explanation from his lawyer that the real killer was "Johnny," Siesling's alter ego.

Since there's no objective test for or even consensus on what constitutes "schizophrenia," it certainly speaks highly of the group of people labeled as schizophrenic that the incidence of violence among them is insignificantly higher with drug abuse and otherwise no higher.

Since the incidence of violence among people with the label drug abuser is higher than that of the general population anyway, I would imagine that the incidence of violence among people who are labeled as drug abusers and are not dually labeled as schizophrenic is either the same or higher than that of "schizophrenic drug abusers."

And of course there's the fact that getting labeled schizophrenic can keep one out prison or if one is in prison get one dosed with SuzyQ or even move to a psych hospital, the number of violence people labeled as schizophrenic becomes even lower.

Chances are a real look into this would reveal that people labeled schizophrenic have a lower incidence of violence than the general population.

I bet if the study looked at first degree relatives of people labeled schizophrenic, particularly people who seek psychiatric help for their minor children, the incidence of violence would be much higher than the incidence not just in the general population but among those labeled as not just schizophrenic but also drug abusers.

Still, I'd be careful about this study, it says "incidence of violence" not conviction of violent crime hence is profoundly unreliable. And of course the misdiagnosis of someone using illicit (and licit) drugs as "schizophrenics." Did you realize that some of the incoherent street drunks you see, the vast majority, really are just incapacitated by extended alcohol use combined with economic factors?

Sally, I also wonder how they determine someone who abuses substances is bipolar or schizophrenic. I have an aunt who was diagnosed with schizophrenia who spent much of the 60's-70's taking a lot of illegal drugs. I've often wondered what would have happened if she had not had a bunch of Thorazine, haldol, and god knows what else mixed in with all the other crap she was taking. I think she probably fried her brain and probably the shrinks helped with that, as well. How they determined she had schizophrenia considering her long history of substance abuse is beyond me.

There's a Cafepress shop with E. Fuller Torrey gear here:
http://www.cafepress.com/efullertorrey

E. Fuller Torrey is a dangerous man.

I'm particularly fond of the E. Fuller Torrey teddy bear.

I went to hear Torrey speak in person and it was alarming. He equated Schizophrenia and Bipolar as the same illness, he calls Haldol an anti-viral medication, though when I asked him how that can be he said he didn't know. He is connected to the Stanley research foundation that holds the patent for the Haldol under the skin disk. He believes in "preventative" medicating of mentally ill people. Why he likes Haldol because it is an anti viral in his opinion? because SZ is created from airborne virus that exists in cat poop. He said EVERYONE is carrying the virus, everyone is exposed whether or not they have/had a cat, he said not to give cats to children under age 19, and he wishes he had his SZ sister's dead cat's brain. (he has a brain collection, and the Stanley foundation was in legal trouble for taking brains from dead bodies in king co wa).

How I felt after going to hear him speak at a NAMI talk? (they had no other speaker, only him and they touted him as the leading expert in SZ)

I ran for my car and never looked back. I never felt such evil in my life. Not kidding.

I wonder what E. Torrey Fuller would think of this case. I also wonder if this man was on a "low dose" of Seroquel [for the manic aspect of his personality change]. Low dose Seroquel is the same as taking an antidepressant.

Last paragraph reads: "Maring’s statement said: “Adam was truly the most compassionate, intellectual and giving man I’d ever met and my family is deeply saddened by the loss of the caring man we knew. Unfortunately, Adam battled depression and bipolar disorder for the fifteen years that I knew him. Early last year Adam’s medications were increased with the addition of a mood stabilizer (Seroquel) and thereafter his personality negatively changed. This may help provide some insight, but of course does not excuse the tremendous pain and suffering he inflicted upon the victims and their families. I sincerely apologize for not realizing what was happening earlier, but Adam’s violent behavior is shocking and impossible for me to comprehend. I appreciate everyone’s kindness and support during this difficult time.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090525/NEWS/90524028/1001/NEWS

Woman reflects on slain boyfriend’s actions
the des moines register • May 25, 2009

The woman who told West Des Moines police she suspected her boyfriend was responsible for a string of suburban break-ins and rapes when he began to keep strange hours released a statement Sunday in which she tried to provide insight on his actions and apologized for not recognizing sooner what was happening.

Laura Maring’s boyfriend, Adam Harvell, 36, was shot and killed May 12 after detectives took a search warrant to the couple’s townhouse at the Village at Glen Oaks to get samples of Harvell’s DNA and to look for other evidence. Harvell pointed a blank pistol at the detectives.

Detectives had connected a string of five home break-ins in West Des Moines and one in Waukee to a single person about a week before Maring called police.

Maring’s statement said: “Adam was truly the most compassionate, intellectual and giving man I’d ever met and my family is deeply saddened by the loss of the caring man we knew. Unfortunately, Adam battled depression and bipolar disorder for the fifteen years that I knew him. Early last year Adam’s medications were increased with the addition of a mood stabilizer (Seroquel) and thereafter his personality negatively changed. This may help provide some insight, but of course does not excuse the tremendous pain and suffering he inflicted upon the victims and their families. I sincerely apologize for not realizing what was happening earlier, but Adam’s violent behavior is shocking and impossible for me to comprehend. I appreciate everyone’s kindness and support during this difficult time.”

i can only speak from my own experience.

my older sister had paranoid schizophrenia and wished to kill one of our neighbors who she believed was tormenting her. i believe she would have done it had she had the means and her cognitive ability at the time had been to a point where she could plan it out.

in the end, however, she killed herself. which, i guess, was her way of putting herself out of her own misery and preventing the misery that would have resulted from her doing it to someone else. i like to believe a certain morality was at play there, however distant and twisted it seemed to be.

(this was in the early 80's and was on and off the standard meds of those days. not sure if she was on her meds when she did what she did. probably not.)