Be interesting to learn Phil how many times it states on the Celexa patient information leaflet that if the patient is having difficulties then they should talk to their doctor? Also, if Celexa is available in liquid form and if your friend or her doctor are aware that it is available in liquid form?

Plans are underfoot for the MHRA to speak with withdrawal expert, David Healy. I don't know when but I do know that the wheels are in motion. No consolation for your friend but if the MHRA can act on a blogger's concerns here in the UK then the door may be open at the FDA for someone to voice their concerns regarding SSRi tapering?

I can think of nobody more prepared than yourself Phil. Both the FDA and MHRA know how influential blogging can be and if patients have some sort of guidance how to taper safely off these types of drugs then maybe doctors will gradually be made aware that the patient has SSRi withdrawal problems and NOT a return of depression.

Good article Phil

Fid

19 months to get rid of Effexor - felt all withdrawal symptoms.
3 months without being able to live due to hideous withdrawal symptoms.
Back to Effexor for the rest of my life - of course the psychiatrist has diagnosed me as depressed, a condition I never had, and suggested that I might be... bipolar.
I didn't know that muscles spams and all I felt were depression symptoms
That's my withdrawal story.

The presumption seems to be that nobody in their "right" mind would ever get off these drugs. There's simply no provision in the psychiatric thinking for withdrawal. How many of us have been told "you'll need to be on medication for the rest of your life"? It's hard to get behind researching something you don't plan for.

Including this information in the pharmacy leaflet is necessary, yes - but our doctors need to tell us about this! Far too many of them don't even believe in the withdrawal stories that we tell them!

Dammit.

Hooked on Effexor for life, that's me. I can't handle the vertigo long enough to go more than two days without.

My doctor never, ever mentioned to me that #1. there could be withdrawal symptoms, and #2. that it was quite possible I'd have to take this damned stuff the rest of my life.

The pharmacist told me I must have "the flu" because he'd never heard of any withdrawal symptoms.

I just typed "I hate them both" then backspaced over it, because in all truth, I hate no one.

But I am VERY UNHAPPY with the situation.

I remember being told I'd need to take zoloft for the rest of my life by a psychiatrist after the classic 15 minute med check. I never saw the psychiatrist for longer than 15 minutes (for which my insurance co was billed 250). She was seeing me in conjunction with her partner my psychologist/therapist. I remember at the time being relieved to get a drug because I was lonely, in a new city with a new job and pretty unhappy, still, I thought it odd that she would so cavalierly explain I needed a drug forever for a "mental condition." She didn't volunteer any diagnosis, I didn't ask. I do remember, as I've written before, asking her what would happen if the drug no longer became available? She laughed, funny joke. I get more information from my pedicurist about toenail care than that pshrink gave and she was a pretty expensive chi chi one.

So the point is, the doctors just tell the patients they'll have to take the drugs forever and never consider withdrawal or interaction with other medications or actual medical conditions even these days when patients are routinely switched from one drug to another, except of course that they attribute virtually every event or report negative or positive to the wonder drug "unmasking bipolar." Scary stuff. And you do seem to be a voice in the dark on this one.

I unfortunately hear these stories pretty much daily on my blog, but recently in my "real" life a girlfriend called me very concerned about a close friend of hers mother.

Her mother was yanked off of Cymbalta cold turkey due to elevated liver enzymes..the woman was then psychiatrically hospitalized 3 times before someone thought it might be the cold turkey withdrawal. At 3 weeks post withdrawal my friend called me.

I've basically saved the woman from misery. She was reinstated at a lower dose and is now tapering as I suggested with the approval of her doctor. I made several different suggestions including reinstating with something less toxic on the liver, even Prozac perhaps, which has a long half life and in general has less withdrawal problems. I wasn't sure how that would work out as Cymbalta is a SNRI and Prozac is an SSRI, but I think after 3 weeks cold turkey that would still help the withdrawals considerably.. (though as your friend above discovered some people even have a nightmare time with Prozac, especially after many years of use)

If it's been less than 6 weeks for your friend and she still feels really shitty you might suggest she reinstate...if people come off in tiny amounts most people really don't need to suffer...it's just in general people don't have the patience to do it slowly enough.

Your friend might be lucky particularly if her maintenance dose over the past two years was only 10 mg. and it's her first time on antidepressants. I hope things go smoothly for her. The truth is it could take weeks really to be back to "normal" and I've heard of crying jags starting several months after withdrawal that come out of nowhere (often the cue to go back on, but it's still really withdrawal related) but if people are determined, ultimately they'll feel a whole heck of a lot better. That's what I firmly believe and have also witnessed.

The relative absence of research on how to come off SSRIs would seem to indicate an assumption that once started, one would never come off them. Most people I know who take them carry a belief they will do so for the rest of their lives, and they always make the comparison to insulin and diabetes.

Gianna, I am sorry for your friend's mom and Cymbalta.

My pdoc told me earlier this year to quit it cold turkey due to mania and rapid heartbeat. I started going into psychosis when I called.

I was told cold turkey. EVERY f***ng drug I have been on I was told to quit cold turkey. Docs don't know Jack s**t about tapering. I cannot tell you the toll it's taken on my body, mind and soul. Every time I have complained about side effects and cold turkey effects I was told to deal with it, you are a strong woman, it's all in your head. The only concern I got from any doc was Lamictal- and that is because I got the damn rash.

I feel for your friend Philip. Please tell her she isn't alone. I know I feel blessed for your commenters and feel in my darkest times I am not alone either.

I am Scottish, my mum was bipolar but given an SSRI so she rocketed up into totally new levels of mania and stopped taking the drug and really lost it for 3 months she said it was like tripping on LSD then she was more depressed than ever and didn't get out of bed for a year and she now won't leave the house and just watches TV.
I have met a few bipolar types given SSRI's since all got sent to the moon and most had their lifes destroyed.
I reckon a lot of bipolars got given SSRIs witout any testing for mania and Ill bet this a lot of the high profile college serial killings and suicides not rock music or computer games.
But to admit this would open up the mother of all lawsuits so it'll never come out.

Dear Philip:
I’m not really sure if there is really any fine or happy withdrawal stories, but there are definitely hardy and tough survivors. This was my cocktail at the time many moons ago in distant/ancient history that I decided enough was enough to the best of my recollection. As all the following listed drugs stopped working for me, as I was in serious crash and burn mode. I’m sure I have written here about this before at some point, so this is just a repeat for some readers.
Celexa - 70 mg
Klonopin - 7 mg
Risperdal - 4 mg
Lamital -50 mg
Lunesta -2 mg
At that time I had Kaiser Health Insurance, and each of these drugs was prescribed by a psychiatrist and was taken as prescribed. But I knew that since I was receiving no relief from these drugs and all Kaiser would do was offer more drugs and increased doses of the current cocktail; I needed to at the very least wash out, and decide later if drugs were the right or even an option for me or not. Kaiser Health Care after endless arguments and inhumane so called treatment calls and discussions, decided they would only help me off the drugs they had prescribed me and I had taken as directed; if I attended a daily substance abuse program and pee in a cup each morning; as if I were being considered, treated as, and labeled a street drug addict. It would be only then would they give me their drug of chose for my withdrawal systems, which was Phenobarbital.
I told them to go F—k themselves, and went off these drugs cold turkey. This wasn’t a choice between being on or off drugs at that point in the journey; it was a choice of whether I was to die or live. It took me just over one month locked in my residence alone suffering through unimaginable symptoms and suffering; but in the end I won, and was free of the drugs that were literally killing me.
So I knew for me, in my heart of hearts it was either the drugs or me at that particular time. I would never suggest that others decide to cold turkey off these drugs, but it was the only way I survived. There are all kinds of stories like this I’m sure; probably numbering in the millions and millions by now.

But it’s the same old game that psychiatry plays; you’re labeled for life, you’re hooked on these so called helpful medications for life!

It’s all a huge lie within the health care system in the mighty name of ignorance, egocentric aggrandizement by Doctors, as well as pure greed and lack of care/understanding by providers.

The cold hard reality of Big Pharmaceutical and organized health care is they just don’t give a damn about people, adverse drug reactions, or withdrawal. And some out there actually wonder and are dumbfounded by why people are so anti-psychiatry and angry with Big Pharmaceutical!

Nothing has really changed since I had to get off meds! I find that absolutely intolerable, unforgiveable, and hideous behavior by the medical community and industry as a whole.

Yours Truly,
Stan

Stan,
I've heard of stories like yours that turn out successfully, but it's very dangerous to risk cold-turkeying like that...rebound psychosis is very very common and can happen even if someone has never been psychotic when cold turkeying from a cocktail like yours...

It's wonderful that it worked for you! I really mean that and if there was a way to test for such sensitivities I would chose your journey over the one I've taken. But I'm now also off a similar cocktail:

84 mg Concerta
400 mg Lamictal
11 mg Risperdal
200 mg Zoloft
100 mg Seroquel

and I'm working my way down from 3 mg of Klonopin now at 2.25....yeah it's almost over----this is the last drug...and it's taken 4 years!! But I've stayed sane, if not physically healthy...EXCEPT when I did try to cold turkey a few months ago...I tried to finish it off quickly and I DID start getting psychotic within 4 days!! ...so I reverted to my slow turtle pace and I'm fine again.

I just want to encourage people not to assume cold turkey is ever a good idea, unless it 's literally for some life and death reason of toxicity, it is never a safe thing to do...I work in multiple email groups of people who have done like Stan and it's destroyed their lives more than the drugs did...

safely and slowly coming off drugs is more likely to have a long term success.

oh, if someone has only been on drugs briefly and only one or two drugs it's much more likely to be successful to cold turkey...but like I said I do know of one person who was on a cocktail like mine for 17 years and did the cold turkey thing and came out of it like Stan did.

Dealing with tapering in what remains of my family as we speak. Daughter put on lithium and zoloft at age 21 and never came off until she re diagnosed herself after her brother died, killed by zyprexa. Two SSRIs and to the moon she went. Many trials and struggles later she is working with an orthomolecular psychiatrist, staying on lithium but substituting supplements for a slow taper off parnate. Not easy, though no psychosis. The hardest part is figuring out who she is - a person whose soul was flattened all those years by chemicals. Though an emotional time, we attribute it to brain healing and personality revival. This topic really needs a couple of good books.

It's not going to change until it costs Pharma's serious money. It's sad, and I think we're all pretty idealistic here by our natures, but I think it's just a fact.

Keep go'in on. Just keep go'in on.

It's reassuring to read all of your comments. Thanks. Sorry that anyone has to go through this!

I've had a regional pain syndrome and nervous system problems ever since cervical spine surgery 1 year ago. To help calm my nerve function and to calm me so I wasn't always trying to do projects and be supermom, Paxil was prescribed. After 5 months on a low dose, I weened down as directed by my doc.

Holy Withdrawal! I was told that I might experience some "irritability", but I had no idea about all of the other possible effects. I guess it hits everyone differently.

At first, I thought I was having an escalated nervous system crisis. ... extreme dizziness(more than usual), difficulty walking, headache, difficulty processing thoughts, EXTREME reactions to normal stimulus, vision/hearing impacted. (Right now, it constantly feels like a falling/startled reaction). I considered going to the ER to be admitted, but first connected with my doc who explained it's the SSRI withdrawal.

Anyway, I'm in the midst of all of this and am turning to sites like this to process it all and gain better understanding. It sounds like I've got some even rougher bumps ahead.

I'm still trying to figure out how to balance it all. My kids absolutely come first. I've got little ones who want their mommy back. :-(
I'm also feeling so torn about my work-- It's more than just finances, it's my livelihood and part of how I identify myself.

I'm just trying to weather these withdrawal symptoms so I can once again get back to figuring out what to do with myself and the Complex Regional Pain Syndrome--CRPS diagnosis. (Now THAT'S one that's under a lot of debate and lack of understanding by so many... Another thread.)

Okay, this venting was therapeutic. Take care of each other.

i thought i was the only one. You would never believe my story. I can barely fall asleep without screaming. I missed a dose or two of Effexor and got wig out and really bad headache.
Wife goes maybe you have a brain tumor. i am fifty
and rarely have ever gotten headaches. being fifty
I thought maybe I should go, The headache was severe. A dose of two of Effexor never dawned on me. Now the real fun begins. i go to GBMC in Towson, MD. They do a Catscan. i tell them about effexor. i am really messed up at this point.
So i talk to this smart ass doctor Know it all and he says what is going on. I say well i have not been sleeping and drinking alot of coffee studing all the Bird Flu shit. i had had it in FEB
and was curious never really get the flu ever.
Well doc says you have been staying up to long and need to stop drinking coffee late at night.
I say OK. So I go to leave. never ever ever does he say Effexor withdraw. But it gets better real better. I don't get to go home. I am sent To are you rady for this Sheppard Pratt. It's a world Famous cookoo nest( just kidding the inmates there
are just regular people alittle depressed over Money and stuff and lifes struggles and need a break. But I am not there for this. Am I.
They (the Docs) but me on some other crap which I have taken myself off of cause it really really is poison. Legs swelled like tree trunks. Screw that.
So now I have this swishee noise in my head I can't fall asleep without a feeling of being sapped. I am really freaking out. i go on web and find out all these other people have same stuff.
Not ONCE did any of 3 Doctors mention SSRI withdraw syndrome. Thanks for nothing. World renown Shrink Palace are you kidding? i wonder who
Sheppard Pratt really works for and that doctor at GBMC? I think we gonna have a nice BIG HUGE BIG
LAWSUIT goody. I want to see these smart asses get out of this one. Ha, ha ,ha

Psychiatrists are crippling people with their mind altering drugs. SSRI withdrawals can permanently damage your CNS like it did to mine. I have permanent head pains so intense that i have to take Opiates for the intense pain. I was never told or warned of withdrawal symptoms, method of diagnosis, and great risks of these psychiatric drugs. Now i am young and my life is destroyed. Psychiatrists have destroyed my life. I can not even walk from room to room with the INTENSE head pains from SSRI Withdrawal. Psychiatrists have given me head and face Neuralgia that i been having for 3 years that has not gone away. This is why i take Opiods to stop some of the pain. But the pain doesn't subside to a level where i'm functionable, i am still not functionable with these excruciating head pains from SSRI drugs. The fault is psychiatrists not the drug companies and i'll explain why.

Psychiatry's ability to convince drug companies and governments to pour billions of dollars into its practices is based upon fraudulent "diagnostic" criteria. Psychiatrists package various behavior and emotional characteristics and falsely categorize these as a "disease" or "disorder." There isn't a single aspect of behavior that doesn't fall within the broad "symptoms" which comprise so-called "mental illness."

Psychiatry has literally covered every base with invented criteria. The migraine sufferer has a "pain disorder," the child who fidgets or is overzealous at play is "hyperactive," the person who gives up smoking or drinking coffee has a "nicotine disorder" or suffers "caffeine intoxication." If you stutter, it's a mental illness. If you have a low math score, it's "developmental arithmetic disorder." If a teenager argues with his parents it's "oppositional defiance disorder."

These labels drum up business for psychiatrists. Drugs are produced to meet the psychiatrists' demand. Without fraudulent diagnoses, we would not be witnessing the prescribed drug problem we experience today. PSYCHIATRISTS ARE AT FAULT NOT DRUG COMPANIES.

Psychiatrists know the dangers of their drugs and how it kills and cripples people but they will never tell you because they want you as a client for LIFE. They want you to take their mind altering toxins for LIFE ad will brainwash and coerce and trick you to take their drugs.

Psychiatrists are murderers and have caused the deaths of MILLIONS worldwide. They need to be stopped. remaining silent is to accept their torture on YOU.

FIGHT BACK!.

PSYCHIATRY IS A PSEUDOSCIENCE AND A FRAUD.