Hmm some people need a Statistics 101 refresher.

Let's take type 2 diabetes and depression for example. Correlation is not causation. Have they done the appropriate controls and regression testing for other variables? I can immediately think of two potential explanations that make these epiphenomenal - age and social class. Type 2 diabetes is more common in the poor. As is depression. Type 2 diabetes is more common in seniors. As is depression.

I'm sure there are lots more. So you'd need to do a check on EVERY such variable before making any claim (this is why proper research takes so long folks, all that statistical testing). Some of these people whose announcements you are reporting on here need to re-read Huff's "How to lie with statistics".

Anyway yeah I agree with you

.

Did you know grey hair was lethal? Some years after their hair went grey, more years in some cases than others, all grey haired people died! Let's distributed some Grecian Formula and we'll all live forever...

Perhaps it's only a question of semantics.
depression
Whenever a person feels like crying or is sad.
We are only allowed to be happy and smiling.

And here I thought getting diagnosed with type 2 diabetes was supposed to make people happy (or to use the clinical term for that pathology, hypomanic). You know they've also done studies that indicate that people become depressed when a loved one dies. What's next? Thank goodness for all of this research.

Philip, studies like these make me go nuts.

On a related note, remember the study that showed than antidepressants should be given as prophylactic treatment for stroke? Uh, if you have a medical condition that causes you to lose your cognitive ability. of course, you are doing to be depressed.

Here is a novel idea. Instead of using antidepressants, what about engaging people in aggressive non medicine related remediations that would enable them to get the most out life.



For example, for the person with a stroke who has lost their ability to organize and plan their life, use assistive technology to teach them how to compensate. It will go alot farther than antidepressants.

For the person with diabetes, teach them how it is possible with adequate monitoring of necessary things specific to diabetes, that they can lead a normal life. It might do wonders for their depression.

Also, provide role models who have succeeded in spite of their illness. Apparently, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal about a guy with brain cancer? that affected a part of his brain who learned how to expertly manage his portfolio in spite of several cognitive difficulties who did very well. Again, this would do alot more for the depression than an antidepressant.

The problem with my suggestions is they take more time than just handing a pill. Sadly, in our microwave society, professionals care more about the quick fix than they do if it it really words.

AA

Being sick is definitely depressing and enough to set things off, no doubt...

I do though, also think that stress of any kind, and depression is a kind of stress does effect the body.

But I share your opinion that these studies are rather without value.

Making a choice to live a sane, healthy life is all I take from it. If you're making lifestyle choices to be healthy, mentally and physically, in spite of what the condition of your current health is, you will feel empowered and therefore better.

I also believe these studies go nowhere. Of course someone who has one or more of these conditions is more likely to be depressed. Depressions leads to health problems and health problems lead to depression. That's a no brainer. As you imply the real objective of these studies is to get people on antidepressants and many readers here know that that is unlikely to do any good at all other than perhaps a short term burst of a chemical induced high. In the long run antidepressants will worsen each and every one of these conditions, create more health problems of all sorts and exacerbate depression too. Great for building business in the medical and pharmaceutical industries but crappy for the patient.

Don't these people have any idea of the mess they are creating?
This banalization of depression will affect people who are really depressed.
Those people who suffers from Major Depression or Bipolar Depression.
It's hard hearing those famous advices:
"-You don't want face your problems and is using this disease as an excuse to be in bed all day." "-You're lazy." "-Take a walk and you'll feel fine."
When we are waiting for a "campaign" to explain people who are around a depressed person that it's not a question of wanting to feel this way they only gives more and more reasons for a total lack of comprehension about what depression really is.
Shame on you!

I wonder what Einstein would say.
We have to remember that despite being a pacifist he witnesses, and was even advised to write the letter that led to Manhattan Project, with great distress his theory being used in the wrong way.
If he saw all of what is done under the name of science(?) he probably would stop his work and uses his name fighting these people who are using his field in the most infamous way.
Science is wonderful! But what these people are doing has nothing to do with science.
Real science would never ever put on the market drugs based on hypotheses.
Would never say "-It works this way." when they are far from understanding what the problem really is.

PS
Now I can see a Depressed person hearing:
"-You know! I don't know why you're complaining. Your uncle is diabetics and has cancer. Now he is depressed just like you. But he is brave! He always takes his insulin and just stopped radiotherapy. He is depressed just like you but he is living a normal live.
What about you?"

Me again...
Just the other day someone said here that DSM is the Mein Kamp of Psychiatry. LOL
We remember how the Reich used wrongly Darwin, Nietzsche and no matter what or who to promote their idea of "pure race".
Even anthropologists and archaeologists were involved to create a "past" to Aryans propaganda.
All fields of knowledge can be used in the most disgusting way.
Shame on you JAMA, NIHM, Ha.va.d et caterva!

again?
Sorry but all the implications these kind of approach has piss me off.
Could Biede.man be considered the Goebbels of all of this?

I really doubt there is a giant conspiracy afoot here. Imagine that you have just been diagnosed with a chronic illness for which there is no cure, which could result in serious complications (including death) if left untreated, which inflates your risk of developing other chronic conditions, which may require you to make significant changes in your lifestyle, and which will necessitate your monitoring various aspects of your physical functioning several times a day, every day, for the rest of your life. Sounds pretty overwhelming, doesn't it? Enough, maybe, to make you feel sad and helpless for a little while, as you are forced to adjust to new knowledge about yourself and your future?


On the other end, imagine that you've been feeling kinda down for many, many years, and the only thing that's helped you feel better is food. So you eat a lot, especially sugary stuff, and one day your doctor tells you that you've got to make some lifestyle changes, because you've got diabetes.


(And I'm willing to bet that the people in the JAMA study with untreated diabetes have a lower rate of depression than those whose diabetes is being treated because they are constantly reminded of their condition by glucose monitors, insulin, etc.)


Do people with diabetes, as a rule, need anti-depressants? No. Is treatment for depression indicated if someone with diabetes is so depressed that they can't get up out of bed to eat, check their blood sugar, and exercise? Yes.


(And lest anyone accuse me of having been brainwashed during my own clinical training--a form of diabetes runs in my family. My grandfather had it, my father has it, and I may well develop it in middle age also. But my grandpa kept a positive attitude, and my dad keeps one as well. And a positive attitude is excellent prevention of both physical and emotional complications.)

"People being treated for Type 2 diabetes, the most common form, were 52 percent more likely to develop depression than those without the disease...."

I think "develop depression" should actually read here "be diagnosed as having depression." It's a subtle distinction but the implications are huge.

"Doctors may want to consider screening those with diabetes for depression because it may affect how well patients follow recommendations and their risk of developing complications of the disease, researchers said."

Intriguing. Would depressed patients be more or less likely to follow correct diabetes treatment? And why?

Anyway, these studies are really boring because none of them address the problem: the initial categories (DSM labels) are entirely subjective.

The study is interesting in that it notes that people who have their diabetes 2 undiagnosed are not labeled as depressed. So what is causing these subjects to get the depression label is being diagnosed with diabetes (or I admit it could be that these same people haven't been to a doctor in a while). Could it be that people who are more open, trusting and forthcoming about their concerns regarding being diagnosed with diabetes are more likely to be diagnosed as depressed? People who don't follow their diabetes doctors recommendation or who want to try alternative treatment for diabetes are more likely to be punitively labeled as depressed because their doctors perceive them as non compliant? Could it be that some people amplify their reports of depression so they can get diagnosed as depressed and get the happy pill? Who knows, but it is odd that what the study really says is that being treated for diabetes causes depression and as pointed out, the study is probably so flawed as to meaningless for other reasons than that depression is not a medical disease. And how do ssri's affect the appetite, metabolism, etc? How does insulin affect mood? Are "they" going to recommend diabetics take zyprexa if we move to the anti-psychotics for everything model?

It seems similar to the GMA report about becoming poor causing suicide,the problems are societal...poor diet causes diabetes, poverty causes poor diet, poor diet makes you feel good in the short run and then your body starts to die. I can see how finding out such a thing might cause a little unhappiness. The solution would seem to be us folks improving our society so that we have less poverty - figuring out how to do so is so hard even I long for a bit of paxil or a seroquel hit (just for a second mind you).

Gerbil, I posted before without reading your post. You make some good points. I wonder what the studiers mean by "depression." I doubt it's what you are describing, true clinical depression, which I don't believe is a medical disease, but is a real if rare condition.

Also, on the positive side, this study does tend to indicate that depression is not a medical disease caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain but an understandable human response to life. I wonder if people who are not actually diabetic meet the criteria to be labeled as depressed if they are wrongly diagnosed as diabetic but even though big pharma is unethical enough to do such a study, there's no money in it.

Us humans seem fairly good at gathering information, it's figuring out what to do with it that we're not good at.

I know this is a serious post and subject, but that headline made me laugh. it sounds like something out of the Onion.

"But my grandpa kept a positive attitude, and my dad keeps one as well."
Francesca

There you are!
I will say once again:
They should explain what do they mean by the diagnose depression.
I see people with diabetes who are not depressed.
My friend's son deals with diabetes since 14 years old. When he was diagnosed he was on high school and had to change his diet and follow all the treatments.
Believe me. I used to see him playing with friends attending school and is now is living his life!
Is he abnormal?
What about the old man who lives in my building and has the nerve to be laughing and gossiping a lot despite being diabetics?
Whenever we have a flu we should take an antidepressant because, according to my experience, it's always disempowering and sad this condition. Unfortunately the French amineptine (Survector) is no longer available for it would be good to have it during a flu.
After all, according to some pessimists life sucks.
Pessimist people should be on any drug.
Optimist people also should be on another kind of drug.
Those who are in between pessimism and optimism should also be on a drug for you must admit: it's not normal a person changing from pessimism to optimism according to situations.
The only problem I see to treat these people is that they use to change moods during the day.
Perhaps they should be given the same treatment that optimists and pessimists have in the same pill.

Ana,

I most certainly did not (nor would I ever) say this: ""But my grandpa kept a positive attitude, and my dad keeps one as well" so please don't attribute it to me.

Thanks.

Francesca

I'm very sorry Francesca.
It was Gerbil who said that on a comment above yours.
I didn't mean any harm.
It was a mistake. I would never put words on your mouth intentionally.
I'm deeply sorry.

I agree with Molly Philip,

I had a smile when I saw the title, it does sound Onionesque.

How about this as a title:

Major Flaw in Science Revealed!

Today evidence was revealed that overwhelmingly indicates a critical flaw that has cropped into scientific research. A widening trend of complete lack of common sense pervades modern sciences today. Causes are unknown at this time and solutions so far have not only been elusive, they are not even under discussion.

On a more serious note about the painkillers. I have noticed this trend and it bugs me. Although I have had some strong feelings and opinions largely against psychiatric medications I am in no way anti drug. Back when I used to suicidally depressed and I hated myself I did some stupid things to my body. I am paying for it now, in my 30s for the mistakes of my teens and early 20s.

I have spinal pain, soft tissue damage in my neck, some disk degeneration and tension that has been with me for years. Fortunately the practice of tai chi and chi gung keeps me not only functionally well but the improved function and mobility helps ward off the specter of depression born of the strain of enduring malfunction in your body that never quite goes away.

On occasion I have a neurological storm for lack of a better word. My nerves and muscles seize up and I have some strange symptoms similar to palsy. Tai chi always fixes it every time but sometimes it happens in the night. I wake up spasming, in pain, feeling slow and rusty and 1000 years old. It is hard to get moving. Codeine owns every pain med I have ever tried. Codeine combined with a muscle relaxant like Flexaril gets me able to start my physical therapies. On those days I am grateful for having pills rather the going through the hassle of brewing opium tea which would be my only solution for an opioid based painkiller aside from taking heroin if codeine was pushed off the market. No way in hell I would take an SSRI or any other of the garbage meds they are churning out these days.

In honor of the Onion and Philip's piece today I wrote my own post called,

'New study reveals strong links between depression and being alive.'

:)

good one jane. since a few have brought this up, the headline was a small attempt at humor but was also getting at my frustration with seeing study after study linking depression with utterly everything. it's gotten a wee bit excessive out there.