I'm taking 1350mg every other day and, other than some weight gain, a little dry skin and a powerful thirst, I'd say I'm tolerating lithium quite well. I would also say that it has made a direct, positive impact in my life, and I'm glad it was my diagnosing doctor's first choice of medications.

Um, lithium is not like taking water for anyone. It causes changes in kidney function over time in every person who takes it long term, no exception. Most people will not end up in kidney failure, but they will have polydypsia and polyuria while they take lithium and there will be permanent changes to their kidneys that will leave them more vulnerable to kidney damage from other sources. That's of course not counting the many folks who end up with actual kidney failure. Kidney disease causes depression by the way in a nice touch of irony. People are often not warned to avoid all NSAID's while on lithium as well as avoiding heat and any situations that could cause dehydration which causes toxicity. Just one instance of lithium toxicity increases greatly the odds of developing kidney failure later. Water doesn't do that. I don't believe dying of kidney failure is preferable to dying at one's own hands and the sad fact is that most folks with psychiatric diagnoses who develop kidney failure are never referred for transplant and when they are most are not approved. I am one of the very few lucky ones who was.

Alison, I'm sorry about your terrible experience. But Philip did not say that lithium was like taking water for everyone. His exact words were: "For some people, it's a downright nasty drug" - which is consistent with everything you have just said. So I think you are aiming your fire in the wrong direction.

Personally I think comparing a drug to other drugs that some people actually say increase the risk of suicide (Neurontin especially) and then on that basis saying it "prevents" suicide is a stretch. Yes, I've heard that Lithium somehow miraculously quiets the suicidal mind -- I'd love to know the mechanism by which it's doing that -- I doubt if it's pretty. But I also understand that after stopping it things can be worse than ever, thus plunging someone into that vicious cycle so common to psych drugs, where the rebound gets medicated with ever stronger stuff or you end up hooked on it forever with all the physical risks that entails.

I get it. The benefits of lithium must be illusory, because lithium is a psych med and all psych meds are bad, and we know this with rock-solid certainty because... all psych meds are bad. And so on and on and on, in an endless loop. That's an airtight argument if you are hooked on deductive reasoning, but if scientists thought that way we would all still believe that the sun orbited the earth.

I take lithium. It's the greatest thing ever. I know it could kill me in 10, 15, 20 years. I knew all this when it was prescribed for me.

My illness, without treatment, will kill me within 6 months.

It would be nice not to have to choose. I don't have that option.

Garth, maybe I do think all psych meds are bad long term. I admit it. Believe me there is a LOT of scientific evidence about their neurotoxicity and the effects this has on well being. Read Grace Jackson, Robert Whitaker, David Healy, Joseph Glenmullen, Peter Breggin and on and on. I don't think your comment adds one thing to the discussion. The fact is when people go off lithium unless they are very careful they often become intensely suicidal. Kay Redfield Jamison's memoir for one demonstrates this. She attributes it to her disorder but frankly I attribute it to all the crap she was taking and has to continue to take to avoid withdrawal. Also I don't think anyone can say for certainty that their illness would kill them if they didn't take lithium on an ongoing basis. Or if they had NEVER started it. Sure maybe they did need a sedative or tranquilizer (as well as some intense form of support and counseling) at some point but lithium for the rest of their life? I think that's garbage. So maybe I'm wrong. And I know the paradigm I'm recommending isn't an easy one to implement. I'm entitled to my point of view, given that I am widely read on the subject and have also observed lots of "treated" people.
Listen, Garth, I appreciate that you keep coming back to Philip's site and reading all this stuff. I'm sure it's not easy. But stop getting personal in your attacks. Bring something substantive to the discussion.
And actually I do think the whole debate on psych treatment paradigms is very much like the debate about whether the earth revolved around the sun or vice versa. The people who thought the earth revolved around the sun were attacked viciously by those who thought the earth was the center of the universe. Few people wanted to let go of that fervently held belief that meant so much to them. There are a lot of parallels with those attacking psych treatment paradigms right now. Look at what happened to poor Galileo.

Actually I have observed that lithium is coming back into favor with psychopharmacologists, maybe because of all the bad publicity about atypicals. I've heard of several people being put on it recently which is pretty amazing when you consider the profit margin must not be that great. For years you hardly heard about it at all. And just FYI these are people who were reacting badly to antidepressants for the most part.

Sara, time for a long island iced tea! :)

Sara:Also I don't think anyone can say for certainty that their illness would kill them if they didn't take lithium on an ongoing basis

Then you are talking complete rubbish. Given the number of suicidal depressions I have had I can state it for a fact. The only thing that saved me last few times before lithium was hospitalisation before I got to the state where I was trying to jump out the hospital windows etc.

My significant other is under court-ordered community treatment and Lithium is the only drug he'll agree to use. So he gets injected every two weeks and can't speak coherently for days afterwards, but given his *choices* Lithium is the best on offer. Hmph.

Right, Stephany, I'm joining Philip and taking the rest of the day off or at least until the evening. It's getting hot here in cyberspace too! Thanks for the suggestion ;) Have a nice weekend! And good luck to all you lithium lovers. I'm glad it's working for you. Really.

FP, I am so grateful we don't have court order outpatient treatment here in Connecticut. I (essentially) gained my freedom from commitment because that option isn't available and the hospital could not justify keeping me in-patient. I think it is only a matter of time though before all 50 states have force out-patient treatment. It's interesting that your partner had a "choice" of medication. It's a bit odd to me that medication is offered in an "a la carte menu" fashion. It comes across as: "We don't care what you take as long as you don't make too much noise, create waves, or sing loudly off key..."

I don't see a single lithium lover on this thread.

Funny how the considered opinion

It would be nice not to have to choose. I don't have that option.

always comes down to cries of "stupid, mindless, obedient sheep" verses the vicious cruelty in those who would deprive others of something that's keeping them out of the morgue.

Ew, sorry about the formatting above.

Paul, PACT is like any entity of social control, chock full of carrots and sticks, or what policymakers call "incentivizing" behaviors that lend an air of autonomy to what any honest person recognizes as coercion. It's an evil pretense that takes the focus away from what they're actually doing and discourages needed research for finding alternatives.
Still, I am glad he gets to choose what appears to harm him the least.

Um, the American Psychiatric Association has a recent article in direct contradiction to the one you cite. It says lithium does not protect against suicide. See here: http://hymes.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/data-question-claims-that-lithium-reduces-suicide-no-data-questions-fact-that-lithium-can-kill-your-kidneys/

Sara, I don't think it rises to the level of a personal attack (what did I say about you personally?) but I am sorry if my remark was overly sarcastic and aggressive. (I especially regret putting in that unnecessary crack about the sun revolving around the earth.) I did have a point, which is that your argument seems to rely on circular, deductive reasoning. But I don't see the point in trying to elaborate.

Believe it or not, I came to this site unconvinced or uncertain about many of these issues and have been trying to play devil's advocate much of the time, to see how sound the arguments on the other side were. But I am clearly an unwanted interloper on a site which so many regulars see as a refuge where they can repeat the same opinions over and over again without any challenge. I have also gotten rather frustrated with repeated ad hominem attacks on me here (I don't mean overly harsh comments about the wrongness of my views, Sara, but explicit attacks on my character and personality), and maybe that is detracting from my own ability to contribute in a civil way.

On the whole this has taught me a lot, but not about psychiatry. (If anything, I have learned that many of the criticisms of psychiatry are based on even worse arguments than I thought they were.) So, end of lesson. There is more to life than such debates, so best of luck to you everyone on your personal journeys, wherever they may lead - sincerely.

It's true that maybe my remarks weren't entirely fair either. However I don't really think my arguments are circular, deductive reasoning. I will try to think on that some more.

I agree that some people on this site do defend anti-psychiatry in a very emotional and aggressive way. I imagine it's because they have suffered a lot from current diagnostic and treatment paradigms. I try to be more rational in my remarks. I'm sorry if you're leaving and that you feel the criticisms of psychiatry on here are based on poor arguments.

I wish you the best of luck in your treatment and recovery.

Sara,
I'm sorry. But after reading what you wrote on the post "Stop smoking drug Chantix starts bipolar" I truly believe you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
People here are not anti-psychiatrists, neither scientologists.
Dear Lord!
I believe we should all convert to catholicism or claim we are from any religion.
How to avoid the anti-psychiatrist label, that's the question.

LOL

I for one, cannot find one word in comments to proclaim Garth "personally attacked anyone". Honest to God, he is right! It's like the women found a good couch to sit on and bitch here!

(myself included and this is not directed toward any woman/man commenter.) I mean think about it, this is off topic but rational? come on. when there is a paxil SSRI story; or Zyprexa; or whateve take a look at who pisses off first; based on personal experience. pity the men who try and take a stand in this forum!