My blog is only getting better :)

I think that sometimes on the journey to getting over mental illness it's too hard to spend time reflecting on the bad things in life. Most mental health bloggers only write when something is bothering them. In some ways it's good because it gets it out, but in other ways it's bad because you basically dwell on the negative for a while to write about it. Sometimes I find it so hard to sit down and reflect on what is going on in my head long enough to write about it.

Being a victim of risperdal, (I developed hyperglycemia from the drug, which was essentially misprescribed), I find that some sort of major reform of the drug companies needs to be on the agenda for the health care system. Finding out a way to generate revenues, through outside investments, and even to go as far as have the CEO's be paid from funds non associable with the company operations, is one area to look at. Even outlawing market revenue from direct public sales of the products via state and Federal laws, I would even seriously consider, even though that sounds drastic. But then again, look at the disaster from the unbridled marketing strategies of these companies anyway. If these companies generated tens of billions of dollars in revenues over a multiyear period,---what I can't understand, why not at such point they explore the options of generating revenue from Wall street or other accounting firms in outside investments that could increase that tens of billions of dollars. It happens everyday with other businesses? Why not drug companies. And that is drug companies with the solid ethical people running them. Whenever that happens.

As I've noted in my comments on this blog and Gianna's I have a real concern that some important mental health blogs are imploding. I hope it's just a temporary thing and not a sign of the times. But yes, being a mental health patient comes at a price and those writers who are still being treated with a lot of meds are going to have health problems besides their ongoing mental issues making it hard to sustain a line of "work" that doesn't pay and requires a lot of emotional energy.

I admit to not being aware until a couple of days ago that antidepressant prescriptions are soaring again in this country. The black box warning only brought a temporary slowdown. Unfortunately once someone is well into a course of treatment on these drugs or worse, the atypicals, I think it's a rare individual who questions it. For one thing if someone tries to stop abruptly they immediately get some nasty symptoms and, with the level of awareness about what withdrawal is really like or how to do it properly at near zero among professionals, patients are scared back into treatment pretty fast. People are very frightened to get off drugs for a whole host of reasons so come under the spell of their "benefits" quickly. Peter Breggin has written an excellent essay on "medication spellbinding" that's on his site; I highly recommend it. I consider this one of the most insidious things that is happening in health care today. Evidence of this really hit me when I skimmed the comments in response to Richard Friedman's column the other day on the NYTimes website. He just raised a few highly philosophical doubts; it certainly was not a hard hitting slam of a/ds yet the a/d believers came streaming out of the woodwork attacking him and defending their beloved drugs. This is just really hard to fight. The bottom line is that with so many people who have a lot at stake in believing the drugs are good for them it's really hard to be heard. I don't know how to get them to listen. I think actually you, Philip, have been very successful at getting people to listen, way more than most, but it's like hitting your head against the wall I know. I face this myself every single day as I try to discourage people from starting or encourage them to taper safely, often unsuccessfully despite my best effort. But no, I really do not think the mainstream approach to mental health is right at all and I hope you as well as others will keep trying to make a dent. It's a public health disaster in the making of enormous proportions.

I'm very sorry for your friends.
"Why is it that mental health blogs are so difficult to do and keep going?"
I don't know.
There's no blog in Brazil.
I would like to make one but... You cannot imagine how hard it's to speak about it around here.
The last book on antidepressant: "I take antidepressant thanks the Lord!"
Hope you don't find me too boring complaining.
But I can feel your pain and at the same time even with all your difficulties you at least has a space which we don't have.
You have David Healy, Peter Bregguin, Buce Levine, Charles Medawar in UK , Joseph Glenmullen, sites on mental health like mindfreedom, ssristories, this great Blog of yours.
Even a search on "antidepressant" shows the other side.
If we type "antidepressivo" ("antidepressant" in Portuguese) only the pharmaceutical version is online.
Please don't stop your blog.

I suspect it is a combination of things...yes, these blogs probably are being crowded out by the pharma and allied pharma sites, but I think, too, that so many people have bought into the current mental health paradigm that we are very much in the minority. And let's be honest, how many people like to be told that maybe the AD's or AP's they've been on for years and years aren't doing them any good, and that maybe they were wrong to take them? And how many people who are actually on these drugs have the mental acuity to be capable of questioning? I know I didn't when I was on psych-meds.

What I do know is that if these voices disappear, if sites like Gianna's Psychiatric Withdrawal and Recovery go away, then we have lost a valuable resource, and that people who are willing to question are not going to have access to the information they need. Or support. I've been looked at askance by my doctors and my family for choosing to go off of medication. It's a comfort to me to know that there are others out there who are asking the same questions I did, and coming to the same conclusions.

Its complex like every other issue.

Its discouraging. No matter how much you try to inform the masses the pharma shills for the drug companies always have more information out there. And since its there job they tend to stick with it or the "next I need to put food in my mouth" no matter what person steps in.

Too many people get stars/dollar signs in their eye that'll they be able to make a living bringing the information to masses. When its a demographic that has the least amount of expendable resources. When they start having to pay the server costs they threaten to take the site away or to quit as some fear tactic to get funds that alienates people. When they don't get the out pouring of support they believe the deserve, then they retaliate by not doing as much.

One site does updates in bursts, Nothing for several weeks then pages of new articles all at once. which no has the time to read. While "they caught up" they did so in way no one was likely to read all that.

The drug or treatment falls out of fashion and the person has no first hand knowledge of the new crap so they stay silent. No anger, no motivation

The farther you get away from your own abuse and medical malpractice from the psych industry the less passion you have to motivate you.

The system and governments makes more set backs causing even more apathy to the cause.

Its time consuming. No one can give the needed time for years on end. Add to it most people harmed by the psych industry have failing health and are struggling to live and simply complete daily tasks. Eating the time and any time left over they don't have the energy to do it anymore. Once they fall behind it discourages them farther and they quit. They go at it less and less until the absent period is so long it becomes why even bother or the url and site goes dead or gets registered at the expiration by the next great "I'm going get rich selling/blackmailing it back to them" domain squatters. The site moves several times or the google links go to spam link page and people write it off. The pharma didn't win by being right they won by being persistent. Soon or later they'll give up and just become quiet.That's why they let you scream out of your system when you've said your spiel you don't have much more to say and why devote yourself to something that makes your life miserable or bothers you.

Some don't want to half ass the project and decide to stop instead of writing less worthy with fewer updates.

The mentally ill in fight too much and don't want to be associated with each other cause "that side is crazy". Look how everyone treats the CCHR because they're sciencetologist. No shrink uses/says a disclaimer saying they aren't with "x" We should be ashamed. The psych industry doesn't have to do any busting or "salting the mine" we do it all ourselves.

Too much of it becomes their personal story and not newsworthy or educational. Sounds harsh but people don't want to read the life struggles they want facts that are easy to digest and with quotable legit sources. Big media will never really cover it because the anti-folks never buy ad space. Say what you want about freedom of the presses you know there isn't a (lasting) publication that doesn't cater to the advertisers and potential advertisers.

In the end it may be too many people never look back once their journey progresses onward. Perhaps they don't feel they are worthy enough to continue covering the cause.

To many places get used to farther the author's causes begging for support of this and/or that loosing the way and the readership.

The rest eventual give in to the pressure and take the drugs because getting wasted and not caring is easier. Not to downplay that the non "psych" drugs don't alter your thoughts and motivation also

It can be a disability for a reason and lets not forget Social Security considers such efforts a sure sign you can work although there are no jobs creating links anymore...

In the end, may being beaten and kicked around so many times, they just turn inward until the self implodeds/die

begin sarcasm
Its everyone has A.A.D.D. and thats why it'll never amount too much or persist cause the shrinks were right about us all along...

Mental health blogging -- especially from a "skeptical patient" point of view -- strikes me as a tough business. A lot of work, a lot of potential for criticism, and potentially very lonely too. I sure hope you and Liz, and all the others, don't all fade away!

My two half-baked ideas: 1. Is it possible for people to collaborate on a group blog? 2. Is it possible for survivors like ourselves to get together in person at any point? (either in something grand like a natl conference, however modest... or in smaller local groups) We might be able to have more of a dialogue on where to go and what to do than is possible in the "blog-and-comment" format. I have tried this on a couple of discussion boards... but without much success. After two years, I would still give my right arm to meet a single fellow patient, in the flesh, who shares some of my concerns. Both for mutual support and to strategize about "taking action" in whatever modest way. Would also be willing to do my bit for any group blog project that emerged.

I'm saddened by Gianna's decision to put her site on hold, although I completely understand it.

These blogs become full-time jobs, and are draining.

I think most people are interested in sound-bytes, and they recieve plenty of these from conventional medicine, and psychiatry in particular.

We lived in a society that has a deep appreciation for instant gratification. And when it comes to the crazy uncle, most families are simply delighted that he is 'quiet' at the family get-togethers.

Pyschiatry is destroying lives - each and every day. Just take a look around at the 'zombies' who are on meds.

How did we get to the point that we are so removed from each other, and our own reality that we cannot recognize such an abysmal failure?

I'm glad you're still here - you do incredible work!!!

Duane Sherry

Johanna, you might want to consider joining ICSPP and attending one of their conferences. I've been to three of them and it is incredibly inspiring to be among like-minded individuals when everywhere else we are clearly in a minority. I'm not saying I agree with everything presented at these conferences but it's sure a lot closer to what I believe than any other forum I've ever been to (outside of these blogs on the internet). And lots of so called psych survivors (including those I would label truly healed) do attend. It's amazing.

P.S. Some of my comments went up under "sara" with a little "s" but they're all me!

I think that I miss my friends as well, and that we have all become--as commenters and bloggers--a community where face it, we have told our stories, our heart, blood and guts for survival and to help others but first as an outlet for ourselves, which then I feel evolves(d)into helping others. In a world where we are often isolated due to illness, medication withdrawals, all of it--we find comfort in a really basic phrase: "You are not alone".

It is difficult to keep up, because [as this week ironically I looked at my blog and wondered what the hell I write for? and was going to shut it down too.]--it is from us. Real people in real lives, feeling real feelings, pain and suffering, so it is to be expected that we feel we need to keep the blog going for others, and even for ourselves. But there comes a time, when at least for me--I wonder what the point is.

Then I will get a comment from someone who says they read my blog and have been, and I may not ever have known it. It gives me some sort of solace in an isolated world full of mental health issues and personal angst. Plus, I like to research pharma stuff and it's an outlet for a quirky part of my human nature.

I lost my point. I guess I want to emphasize I feel somehow we are all friends. No matter what viewpoint or take we have on things, I look for people here and wonder where they are; are they OK, etc.

Real people behind the typing.

Mark has left a comment on my blog,he had heart surgery and is recovering.

Philip, the majority is often wrong. Slavery was once considered a necessary evil by the mainstream as was the extermination of most Native Americans, and the idea of women voting was viewed as "crazy." There is not much consensus among the dissenters in the US on much of anything. Look at the Presidential race, most of us are guilty of knowing only what we don't want, not what we want. The mainstream approach to mental health care is a commercial produced by big pharma. It is losing steam. Don't lost heart at this late date.

Dear Philip,

“Why is it that mental health blogs are so difficult to do and keep going? Why is it so hard for them to find the substantial audiences they deserve?” --- Philip Dawdy

I’d like to take a moment to reply to your perspective and questions. From my readings it appears many of the bloggers you refer to continue slogging through with their own illness or challenges and/or the health care system without either favorable response or long-term remission weighted down in many instances by the additional side-effects from the very therapy meant to stabilize those illnesses while often lacking gainful employment. In my opinion these blogs allow these individuals to rightfully vent their frustrations and anger and their need to connect with others similarly suffering but too often dwell upon the negatives only to reinforce those same negative issues repeatedly without focusing on the all important issue of obtaining wellness.

“Pyschiatry is destroying lives - each and every day.” --- Duane Sherry

I’ve cited the above interesting perspective of what I perceive as the continued dissemination of negativism and a probable reason for audiences to turn away. Patients and loved ones are seeking answers and potential avenues to beneficial treatment options. From my experiences and knowledge it is the seriousness of the mood disorder which disrupts the life of the patient and loved ones and is also potentially lethal and not the intent of Psychiatry or its practitioners. Patients suffering from mood disorders existed, struggled and died long before the advent of the pharmaceutical industry and/or the formalization of the institutions and practice of Psychiatry. Unlike others I prefer to think of doctors as doctors, good doctors and better doctors and the same with hospitals and facilities etc.

As a long-time support person and caregiver who has not suffered from mood disorders and in reasonably good health I cannot fathom with all the negativity I read and having to deal with serious mood disorders at the same time, how one could continue maintaining any blog for an extended period of time. From my own experiences I believe it to be healthier to take periodic and if necessary extended breaks and care for oneself or simply to move on and find other more rewarding and/or gainful endeavors and better yet, wellness.

I also believe that substantial audiences are not obtained simply because those individuals who do suffer a bout with mood disorders and are fortunate to quickly obtain efficacy from any treatment option go on with their lives and have no need or interest to dwell on what is potentially very depressing subject matter. Those who do suffer longer-term and find respite also tend to continue on with their lives and do not look back. What is left is a smaller unique population of seriously ill patients and/or their support people either still looking for answers or more interested in rehashing their illnesses, side-effects and negativity or lambasting everyone and anyone for their mental ills but certainly not discussing “mental health.”

Now what reasonably healthy individual would want to continuously blog about “mental health” for 4 decades?

Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com

Another one goes down today, very popular and I will miss it.

BEEN BROKEN(gone for now).

My personal blog has the most hits from my writings about mental health topics, such as ADHD, Seroquel withdrawals, Cerenia[dog medication]and this is why it shows up on google a lot, and other web crawling sites.

My personal writings are there, because it's about me, my life and as a mom of a really complex young woman, navigating the mental health system in infinite quest of answers.

My voice, however as a blog author is pretty much read by people searching for real medical answers to psych med questions.

Just today, a google search showed up for "alzheimer patient with stomach pain on risperdal". That right there is why we all need to blog mental health awareness with psych meds and pharma emphasized, because, people ARE needing help that doctors do not have anecdotal stories under their belts to share with them.

I think all we "dissenters" to the current paradigms should remember this quote:
"All Truth passes through Three Stages: First, it is Ridiculed... Second, it is Violently Opposed... Third, it is Accepted as being Self-Evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer (1778-1860).
It's hard to go through those first two stages if one is suffering physical and emotional consequences from the very thing one is opposing. We could all go out and read Ivan Illich's Limits to Medicine too for a little battery recharge.

Sara, that is one of my favorite quotes, it's the damn truth.And shows how long truth has been sought after.

When I was first diagnosed bipolar, I started a blog when my experience with Effexor drove me over the edge and caused such chaos and malignancy in my life that I couldn't stand it. I thought often of suing my various doctors for incompetence or worse. As the medication trials -- from Effexor to others and beyond -- progressed, I found I simply didn't have the energy to keep up my writing; I was so disabled from the medications that the mere act of eating was a herculean effort.

Now stabilized on Lamictal, I've started a different blog, http://reallion.wordpress.com, which catalogues my frustrations with being "permanently" medicated and they subsequent greying out of my life now that I'm "properly balanced." While going on medication I simply couldn't handle the task of writing everyday. Now that I'm quote unquote stable, it seems a less daunting task. I consider myself up to the challenge and I hope that what I have to say reaches out to others who are experience similar frustrations.

I don't know why mental health blogs are drying up. Maybe it is that mainstream media is co-opting us. But damnit I want to at least try to get my voice out there. I'm sick of relying on others to tell our story. Anyone who has a mental health blog should actively seek out others and shamelessly promote them. When I was first diagnosed crazymeds.us was one of my lifelines. We've got to try to be lifelines ourselves. Even if, like me, you're only ranting about how difficult it is just to stay on the meds you're already accustomed to taking.

Herb,

Let me expand on what Duane said.

I don't think all psychiatrists set out to destroy people's lives. I can honestly say that about mine.

But whether they meant to or not, they end up doing exactly what Duane said. My mother begged me to get off the meds was on. She could clearly see they were not helping me. But I was too numbed by them to see what she was saying until I developed a mysterious hearing loss that I now realize was the result of Remeron.

Even then, it didn't prompt to leave a stressful job until for other reasons, I was forced to leave. But even during withdrawal, the numbing existed constantly.

As a result, I didn't do the things I needed to do to finish unfinish business with our parents that all of us need to do. She died last night.

That is how psychiatry destroyed my life whether it was intentional or not. My psychiatrist could clearly see what these meds were doing. How could he not if my mother was seeing it? But because they are incapable of seeing any other options, the treatment is meds come heck or high water.

I do understand why you write what you did. Heck, look at how I blew my mother off?

But please try to understand why we feel the way we do instead of painting us with a broad brush as a crazy anti psychiatry zealot.

If people like your wife want to stay on meds and are fully informed of the risks, I don't have a problem with that. But I do have a problem with psychiatrists not doing full disclosure. They claim they don't know what the long term side effects are but if Paxil Progress is posting studies on them such as SSRIS causing osteoporosis, I am not sure whey they can't find them.

I have said enough.

AA

AA, You mom died last night? I'm so sorry.

AA,

First, I would like to express my sincere condolences upon the passing of your beloved mother. Not all of us are so fortunate as to have loved ones and/or support persons as attentive and astute as your Mom or I. Then again most attending physicians I would be led to believe do not attend to or put in the time to observe their charge as did your Mom or as I continue to do for my spouse.

“But please try to understand why we feel the way we do instead of painting us with a broad brush as a crazy anti psychiatry zealot.” --- AA

While I may understand from where you are coming I neither paint anyone nor use the word crazy when discussing those who suffer from mood disorders. On the other hand I can strongly disagree with what I consider tainted and unreasonable perceptions and conclusions simply by the fact that my spouse and others who I am familiar with have benefited from the same practice of medicine, institutions, physicians and treatment option of which you are expanding upon and others rail against. I also have upon occasion vehemently differed with my spouse’s attending physicians based upon my observations and knowledge and in several instances sought assistance elsewhere.

Having learned over 4 decades physicians are not deities and when their knowledge is applied to Psychiatry I am well aware as with other neurological disorders there is much in the way of science lacking and worse yet in the ability to properly tend to these disorders.

“I do understand why you write what you did. Heck, look at how I blew my mother off?” --- AA

I personally prefer to not spend my time in negative attributions and laying blame as exemplified in similar statement(s) as yours and that of others, “But I do have a problem with psychiatrists not doing full disclosure.” There are label inserts for drugs as well as pharmacists to be questioned relating to drug side-effects and contraindications. These are to my knowledge far more detailed than any physician has the time or knowledge to discuss with ones patient in my opinion. Does one also blame Psychiatry because a Mom sees something that a physician is missing and the patient for whatever reason(s) will not take heed? Does one blame Psychiatry because drugs work for one patient and not another? Does one blame Psychiatry because Effexor XR at one time benefited my spouse for almost 1 year without side-effects at a dosing as high as 900 mg per day or the fact that she was able to also reasonably and quickly withdraw from the drug without any ill effects while others share differing experiences? Does one blame Psychiatry because ECT benefits some and causes potential debilitating side-effects for others?

For the umpteenth time I first and foremost endorse the reasonable education of the patient and his/her support persons to make informed medical decisions in collaboration with ones trusted, caring, knowledgeable and licensed health care provider while also encouraging hope and persistence.

Blame and negativism simply doesn’t do it for me. New ideas and thoughts, improvements and advocacy into current treatments and research into newer innovations affording additional treatment choices and options are the areas I’d rather exert my limited efforts and sharing.

While there still remains no ideal or single treatment to benefit this population of patients and the fact that the “Trial and Error Approach to Wellness” is the only means at the moment to know what is or is not beneficial, one has got to understand there are potential serious side-effects and no guarantees of wellness for mood disorders and other neurological disorders.

Then again, if I take the approach of some of the others who I’ve read on this and other forums I should be blaming my spouse’s Neurologist for some of the things he supposedly caused.

Nope, my spouse’s MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) didn’t destroy her life but it certainly took a heavy toll of almost 4 decades on her living and quality of life and that of mine. Fortunately, she’s alive, almost continuously depression free 8 or more years and I am thankful for the cooperation and concerns from some top notched psychiatric researchers and an innovative treatment approach which has benefited my spouse and others. Let me also not be accused of not giving full disclosure but the fact that all have not benefited from the same therapy.

Let me also add about several friends who knowingly took lithium long-term with the knowledge it could potentially destroy their kidneys. Their similar responses to me was that they would take stability over their mood disorder and wellness for today and address the kidney damage tomorrow not knowing how long they had to live. I can accept reasonable knowledge and informed choice in view of side-effects and laying blame.

The point if any is that I strongly object to is the broad paint strokes of which you speak and of those who come to these forums and generalize in their statements as if what they have to share is what is actually taking place for everyone. I simply am knowledgeable and know better that these individuals are incorrect and that I prefer to share from our personal experiences, research and knowledge that refute these broad stroke generalizations.

Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com

Dear Philip and the many blogs that continue to battle and speak out:

I myself am also saddened by the loss, and pondered closure of some well established and wonderful blogs concerning mental health issues. There is no doubt there is a price you pay when you’re laying it out there on the line all the time with your message and personal journey. Yet, the rewards and messages do not go unforgotten as some may think. Sometimes those investing themselves whole heartedly into these blog sites that pertain to mental disorder issues as we do. Need to take a break and back away from time to time to regain both their strength, health, and prospective. I don’t necessarily believe that is a bad or unhealthy thing to do when you’re dealing with conditions such as bipolar and other major mental health issues.

I truly look at us bloggers and commenter’s as a community of truth, support, knowledge, conviction, and testimonial to each of our ingrained courage to continue on in spite of a very well funded and entrenched model that has dominated the landscape for far too long. I believe with undoubted resolve and honesty; that as one treasured blog door closes or is shut down for a while; another passionate voice rises from ranks to take its place and forge on with our powerful message of debate, questioning, and personal experiences always searching deep within for the truth beyond simple catch phrases, well packaged hype thrown at us by big pharma, the failing model of mental health we are facing at this juncture in time, and the very doctors we entrust with our well being and care. Change is most often a slow and arduous process for those with the where with all to ride out the tide until change comes into practice and some measure of success can be declared.

I don’t see Philip backing away from this blog anytime soon; even if he has to make some compromises and changes to stay afloat with his career and maintaining some sort of livable/viable income. I think that could be said for many of the continued bloggers that comment here and write else where. Though gloomy clouds appear to be blanketing over us at this moment; the sun eventually always peeks through the clouds and renews are steadfastness and strident demeanor. I say we take the time to mourn our loss, and then continue on gaining strength and fortitude from the sacrifices others have made to keep our messages pertinent and afloat.

Just as a forest rises from the ashes of a great fire, we also will grow from seedlings into another forest just as awe striking and immense as the one that came before us. So I personal refuse to take the happenings of recent loses as a mere negative reflection upon the work and words we write and inform with, but as a positive vision to the future others have painfully shoveled out and worked so hard to lay out this path for us to follow and improve upon. Ok, that’s only my personal opinion on this matter; and I’m sure others will agree to disagree with me on this comment. I also happen to believe it’s our differences, uniqueness, and debate that make us that much stronger. Just sometimes what others perceive as our fragile weaknesses; are in reality are underlying strength and well of wisdom to draw endlessly from.

Yours Truly
Stan

Thanks Stephany. She was 93. Sorry, I forgot to mention that previously.

AA

my condolences as well, aa. although 93 sounds like a great long life.

I believe in medication, it works for me. However as an educated consumer I need to know of the darker side. So why would I want to view numerous websites that speak predominantly of the evils of pharmacology? I suspect that are many of us in this category.

I also know of those who reap the benefits of meds but put there heads in the sand when it comes to listening to or learning about the dangers. When the meds release them of pain and agony can you blame them for choosing not to know what risks they might be taking?

Thanks for sharing about Mark! I've been wondering what he was up to, since he'd shown some interest in my blog, but suddenly had become very "silent". So I tried to check on his blog, but it was gone. I hope, both he and Gianna will be all right and back again soon.

My own experience with blogs and blogging is that reading blogs like yours, Philip, contributed and still does contribute a great deal to the resilience I need to maintain, confronted with the massive and, at least to me, quite devastating mainstream "information" elsewhere on the net, and, not least, with what it does to people.

Right now, these days and irl, I witness a friend physically and mentally cracking up because of the drugs she's put on. And all I can do, is listening and responding to her cries for help. - Which the professionals consistently ignore, Herb! And my friend is by far not the only victim of this professional ignorance. So much for the "help" the system offers. - As good as I can, and with the only means available to me: words. In this particular case in the shape of mails and conversations.

Knowing that my friend isn't the only victim of mainstream misinformation, and that critical blogs or sites are rare in Denmark, keeps me going.

And yes, Herb, I want to blame psychiatry! If my friend dies, which unfortunately is quite possible, I definitely will blame both the drugs and psychiatry for promoting them (and nothing much else)! But you're right: Blame and negativism ALONE simply doesn't do it. That's why I plan to do some blogging about alternatives as well as on my own recovery - without drugs and psychiatry's "help" in the near future. For now, I'm still a bit too angry. (Sorry, no line breaks. This is a Mac...)

This entry has been on my mind as has the odd mental health split. Like many other readers of this blog, I started out with my own label. As a kid, my mother took me, as well as my brother and sister to her psychologist. At the time I thought, how civilized, and then I confided in the pshrink and she violated my confidentiality and I knew back then that therapy was a ruse, but when I quit going to see that pshrink (no meds prescribed just endless talk therapy), she told me I'd always need a phsrink...what was she gonna do, tell me, not to mention my wealthy mother, we didn't need to pay her or one of her colleagues every week. If we had been deemed well, instead of just functionally troubled, how much money would she have lost, and this woman was an institution in our town, all the mothers saw her and she of course suggested they bring the kids in for a consult. But not the dads, though she did expert testimony for them in commitment and custody hearings, and of course divorce matters. How much dough and damage did this woman inflict on our community? My brother, the youngest was the age that he finally got doped for adhd, but I digress.

The point I'm intending to make is this, the mental health system is where western civilization sends our problems whether they be unhappiness, despair, agitation, delusion, society points our dissenters, our despairors, our resistors, our weepy ones, our trembling ones, and yes, our beaten bruised and abused ones to the mental health system, so by definition discussing this system means discussing all of the pain and sadness there is, and it's necessary and painful.

Thank you, Herb, for being the voice of reason. My thoughts are in line with yours. Negativism and laying of blame accomplish nothing. Make informed decisions and take responsibility for the decisions you make. Understand that no treatment approach works for everyone, and work to find the best solution for your unique situation.

Philip, I am new to your blog and to the mental health blog scene. Yes, often you are too contrarian, but I have discovered much valuable information on your site and hope you continue. I personally am benefiting from psychotherapeutic meds but am always interested to hear of new research and facts.

As to those who are "throwing in the towel", I'm sure they will be missed, but maybe it's time for them to open a new chapter in their lives.

Condolences to AA here too. I've been thinking about this post and have to think about it more, but one thing I have to say outright is contrarian is the blogosphere, it began as a protest movement against the mainstream media. Though we'll never get the hits the A-listers do, there is a history and culture in political/truth-telling blogs that can lend some insight into success and failures -- especially in terms of those who deviate from the template, which involves things like rebellion, entertainment and snark, aka the sneering remark.

People always have disagreements, but blogs are about community and I think that's where many of us dropped the ball; reading the comment threads of some mh blogs look like tedious lectures and circular firing squads rather than the more congenial, us-against-them bonhomie seem in communities that recognize they're basically on the same page.

Sally, this is the first time I've heard your story; it's not uncommon in privileged circles and I'm sorry that happened to you. I come at this from the opposite side, and push for awareness of how the other half lives -- foster kids, throwaways, whores, cutters and junkies who are in dire need of decent interventions and at best are offered crap short-term corrective therapy provided they surrender their constitutional rights. Your story matters as much as the next persons, which is why I'll never be an absolutist.

As far as I can see, Philip is doing primarily one thing here on his blog: Making information widely accessible, that usually gets suppressed by the mainstream media. I don't know, in how far one can call this "contrarian" at all - unless free information is regarded "contrarian" in itself. Apropos of "informed consent"... That he has his own opinion about things - which I, by the way, not even always totally agree with - and does say it, well, that's a consequence of his experiences, just as the fact, that I don't always totally agree, is a consequence of my experiences.

Actually, I admire the modesty and consideration, that characterizes Philip's personal comments.

It would never occur to me to BLAME Philip of not BLAMING enough. I respect his experiences and views, just as I respect the experiences and views of people, who say drugs and the mental health system work fine for them. Which I can't and won't respect though, is people trying to tell me, that I would have to shut up, and stop blaming. Thus actually telling me, that my own experiences aren't, and what I see others experience isn't valid.

Last year, I lost a friend to Zyprexa. To Zyprexa - and the system, that told him, Zyprexa was safe and the only treatment option - yes! Not to diabetes. And now it's happening again: "Oh, you don't feel too well? Let's try and RAISE your dosage!" Anyone who wants to BLAME me for BLAMING this system for suppressing real safe treatment options and holding back decisive information about itself?? Truth is, safe alternatives are out there, preciousrock. No "new research and facts" needed. Still, the system keeps on ignoring and denying them. While people keep on getting their lives destoyed and all too often even taken.

So, getting the information out there can never be "too contrarian". But I do understand, if people in the long run find it too exhausting to carry on tilting at windmills.

Thank you for the expression of condolences.



To momentarily digress, to all you people who think I am negative, I figured out how to create a line break even though I know nothing about HTML. Not sure I could have done that on my full complement of meds (smile).



After Herb's response to my comment, I started to respond but nothing sounded right. Marian, I think you echoed my thoughts which I thank you profusely for. I am so sorry to hear about your friend. My grief is bad enough and my mother died of old age. I can't imagine experiencing your kind of grief.



Herb, you keep claiming that we don't stick to our own experiences but yet, you want to make assumptions about us when you really don't know our stories. Prescious Rock, you mention informed choice which I never was given.



Regarding the issue of negativity, a person can't be successful in tapering off psych meds when they are negative. I don't want to speak for everyone who has gone through this experience but I am sensing in reading people's accounts that generally, this is what they experience.



They get little support from their doctors who give them a way too fast tapering schedule. When I told my psychiatrist that I wanted to reduce a med by 10% every 4 weeks, he was not happy because essentially, it isn't done that way.



To his credit, he has fully cooperated with my tapering program when alot of psychiatrists wouldn't. But at the same time, he seemed quite doubtful I would succeed which gave me even more motivation to prove him wrong.



Instead of stewing in my juices and moaning about the lack of support, I sought out alternative sources on the Internet.



I also find this discussion ironic in a sense. As we all know, depression is anger turned inwards. Yet, when people express anger on this board, it is deemed negative.



I agree that if all you do is express anger and don't do anything to move your life forward, that isn't good. But Herb and others who agree with him, you can't make assumptions from what people post on this board as to what is going on in their lives



Before my mother died, because I just felt I wasn't getting the benefits from fish oil capsules that I felt I should be, I decided to do more extensive research to figure out what I was doing wrong. I didn't blame the lack of support from doctors.



Well, to make a long story short, I figured out which type might work better and sure enough it did. On the day she died, I found that it took no effort for me to get the things done that I needed to accomplish. Of course, it also helped that my withdrawal symptoms were abating.



Anyway, my point is that we're all different and express being positive and negative in different ways. Therefore, please don't judge me just because my experiences are different from yours Herb. Give us the same courtesy that you have asked from us. I don't think that is too much to ask.



AA

As an FYI, I signed up for griefshare daily emails which I highly recommend if you are experiencing the loss of a loved one.

Anyway, I wanted to share this exert that I think is very relevant in all of our discussions.



"Some people think that going through the losses or crises of life are the exceptional times," says Dr. H. Norman Wright.



"I see it differently. I see the times of calm as the exceptions. Life really is going through one loss after another, one crisis after another.



"Instead of avoiding talking about these times, let's do our homework. When you know what to expect, you're not thrown by them as much, and you're going to be better able to recover."



AA

Dear Marian,
Reading your reply, I believe you misunderstood my comments and/or twisted them. I am sorry about your friend.

Arghh, a day spent offline, outside on the bus, preparing for a job interview tomorrow. FP, thanks for the acknowledgment. Since I was toughloved at 16, having to pay rent to live in my parents' home until I moved at 17, I don't think of myself as privileged, especially after a warm day of Atlanta public transportation, but I am privileged. I don't know what to do about the "mental health system" or "mental illness" right now.

As for this bit, "I come at this from the opposite side, and push for awareness of how the other half lives -- foster kids, throwaways, whores, cutters and junkies who are in dire need of decent interventions and at best are offered crap short-term corrective therapy provided they surrender their constitutional rights."

You're right on point there. In the world of mental health the problem is often that the treatment is worse than the disease.

AA you rock.

This thread seems to me to clearly illustrate that the main rift between critics of the current state of psychiatry roughly follows the split between contractual and coercive. If we ignore this essential distinction, we're never going to agree. Helping people who want psychiatry's help by expanding it as a monolith inevitably means more brutal coercion against people who want psychiatry to leave them alone. Protecting innocent people from being dragged out of their homes and forced to take dangerous drugs and ECT by curtailing psychiatry as a monolith inevitably means leaving the people who want psychiatric treatment even more out in the cold.

Comments like "make informed decisions and take responsibility for the decisions you make" may be totally applicable to someone who voluntarily sought psychiatric treatment and received accurate information about the risks vs. benefits (though you're not going to get that from packet inserts based on 'research' done/ paid for by the companies selling the drugs any more than you're going to get accurate info about the risks of smoking from cigarette companies). I'm not really interest in hearing people complain about the downsides of decisions they freely made.

But what part of "make informed decisions and take responsibility for the decisions you make" can apply to people coerced by psychiatry? Just looking at my own life, I sure made a bad decision being born to a family with a long history of using involuntary commitment to punish the 'black sheep.' I'd better take responsibility for my decision to accept neuroleptics rather then let the psychiatrists get a court order for involuntary ECT. And boy did I drop the ball on making informed decisions when the psychiatrists all insisted that risperdal and zyprexa are "extremely safe" and that my requests for details to back up that claim were "paranoid."

It's true that many people are helped by psychiatry, and it's also true, as Duane Sherry puts it, that "psychiatry is destroying lives - each and every day," and it seems to me that until people recognize that those two statements are not contradictory, we're just going to be talking past each other.

Negativity by its self it unproductive, and I agree that it's a turn-off to readers. But the first step towards solving a problem, if I remember correctly, is recognizing that one exists, and it's tough to point out the existence of a problem without being at least a little negative. The advocates of change that I look up to managed to draw attention to problems without drowning in 'woe is me, everything is so awful' negativity. For example, Martin Luther King Jr. had in many ways a very negative view, but used it to inspire people to change things.

Anyway, the most negative mental health blog by far is TAC's. They push one scare story after another. And while they're accused of being a lot of things, 'negative' is not generally one of them because they claim to be pointing out problems in the context of advocating for what they claim to see as solutions.

So I don't think that the solution to dwelling on negativity is necessarily to just shut up and try to go about one's life. People who are interested in changing things need to be aware of the problems, but also to be positive about the solutions and keep our eyes on the prize.

First things last: sad as it is to see some of the best blogs ending, do we even have any evidence that those blogs ending/ taking hiatus are representative of a downturn in mental health blogs generally, as opposed to just part of a cycle where some end and new ones replace them? I mean, it seems like taking an awfully big leap to see a few blogs shutting down and start wondering aloud if that's because all the critics are just wrong.

I think the lack of interest from the mainstream media is easily explained by the billions of dollars spent on DTC drug and other 'treatment' advertising. And with some of that money being spent for ads online, I gotta wonder what's going on behind the closed doors of google, while they're so busy not being evil.

My blog is still not up yet (the damn things keeps saying that I need at least version 1.1 of the browser yet I have version 2-point-something and it still doesn't work), but apropos johanna's comment, I would be interested in doing something more collaborative. Anyone interested in being part of that, posting something (you don't have to agree with me, all you need is a different view from the establishment) can e-mail me: submissions@underthethresher.com

i'm a daughter of a professional too, and spent the day teaching my kid how to use a washing machine. i'm not a daughter /result of a professional needing validation.

Miraculously, it works anyway, the line breaks. It just didn't in the preview.

Quite possible, that I got you wrong, preciousrock. Because everything just slightly reminding me of the perpetual "argument", that what is practised were "evidence based", and that the alternatives weren't proven to work (even if this were true, which it is not: then do some research!) makes my hackles raise. Immediately.

UnderTheThresher: "...but also to be positive about the solutions and keep our eyes on the prize." Right. I'd actually love to have more positive stories to tell about the mental health/illness system on my blog. Stories about changes to the better. But these are few. Nevertheless, I recently spoke to a therapist who's planning to establish an alternative. Maybe a future positive story.

Thanks for your thoughts in regard to my friends, AA and preciousrock. At least, there's still a chance for the one of them to make it and get a life. Although it's a small chance. Hopefully another future positive story.

It's kind of difficult to make an "informed decision" when a person is given inaccurate/incomplete information. I trusted my physician. When he said Risperdal did not cause TD I believed him. How many people even know to ask about Tardive? I only knew about it because I have a family member who will suffer with the gross disfigurement for the rest of her life. I wanted an honest answer. Now, maybe he didn't know it can cause TD in which case teh correct answer would have been "I don't know" or "the drug is still pretty new we don't know yet." I'm not a stupid person. However, I'm no psychiatrist. I very clearly stated to my psychiatrist that I did not want to take a drug that had even a remote risk of TD. I depended upon the psychiatrist to give me honest information. I'm sure some people will say, well you should have read up on it. If I had the energy to read volumes of data on Risperdal before I took it, then I would not have been at a psychiatrist's office in the first place. He's the one who is supposed to know, and if he doesn't know then SAY SO.

I'm glad to hear that some people are being told the risks of their psych meds & can make an informed decision. I, however, was not.

Lisa, as you know I've got quite a lot of psych med/psych doc stories under my belt, and to this day, even currently with myself, the psych has never once warned me of any possible side effect at all. It really blows my mind. Because I do read, I know what to look for, but like you said, why should we have to be/ and most importantly when we do not feel well, how can we research? I swear the best doctor would be one to say, "Let's try X med, and now let's take an hour reading the fine print about it, and THEN decide if you want to try it." I certainly believe that there should be several teaching classes with a boatload of information as if we are students in a chemistry class; before we ever pop one of these meds. I like to consider myself a smart person, and yet when I don't feel good, I cannot think. Period. Thus the "trust" falling onto the doctor. In the end it all falls apart.

Dear Stephany,

In an ideal world with ideal practitioners and health care system with unlimited resources your suggestion of taking an hour with each patient is in my opinion a wonderful thought.

We both know the realties. In fact, I’ve served as a support person to a number of individuals in the past seeking my assistance by participating during their doctor’s appointment. Well how’s about I tell you about their confusion and inability to even remember what I considered simple instructions regarding their medications and treatment regimen let alone to discuss side-effects and/or contraindications but they were more ready and capable of taking an hour’s time to repeat and describe to the physician their experiences which in a few words such as “severe depression” summed it all up.

There is information available and for those fortunate enough to have support persons and loved ones in support it would behoove them to read. To those individuals seriously challenged and without any support network, you have my compassion, sympathy and deepest respect and admiration for having been able to achieve and come this far and to persist and maintain your hope in trying to achieve a degree of wellness being so disadvantaged.

Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com

Herb,

My blog has a combination of hundreds of links and posts to alternative methods.

I loved the way you took a swing at at us, and then signed off with 'warmly'.

Equally impressive was your advertisement for VNS. I spent a couple of years working with people with epilepsy, and it seemed to help a few along the way - but for depression? C'mon - depression is not a seizure disorder, nor are 'bipolar' mood swings - those treated with anti-convulsants. But, as long as there's suffering, there's room for another sale, uhh Herb?

You are proof that a person can be articulate, well-spoken, and educated, and not have a clue what they're talking about.

Thanks for the comment.

'warmly'

Duane

Herb who

Dear Duane,

“I spent a couple of years working with people with epilepsy, and it seemed to help a few along the way - but for depression? C'mon - depression is not a seizure disorder, nor are 'bipolar' mood swings - those treated with anti-convulsants.” --- Duane Sherry

Yup, for depression and the depression patients have the epilepsy patients to thank. And while you’ve worked with a few there have been over 40,000 implants. Maybe you weren’t aware that depression often plays a part in the epilepsy patient’s mood state. The epilepsy patients reported their depressions abating. Based on their experiences a study was instituted for depression only. FDA approved the therapy for depression also.

I’ve spent 45 years observing and recording empirical data of my spouse’s mood state and she is one of a percentage of MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) patients who have benefited from the therapy. Unfortunately, like most treatments there are no guarantees of efficacy and/or absence of side-effects.

“I loved the way you took a swing at at us, and then signed off with 'warmly'.” --- Duane Sherry

I didn’t take any swing at anyone. I simply strongly disagreed with your statement based upon my experiences, research and knowledge.

“You are proof that a person can be articulate, well-spoken, and educated, and not have a clue what they're talking about.” --- Duane Sherry

Fortunately I also place little to no value in the credence or validity of this statement too. If you care to discuss and learn something about the therapy I’d be glad to share with you and bring you up to speed and even direct you to information as obviously you’re not acquainted with this newer and innovative adjunctive therapy and although your “blog has a combination of hundreds of links and posts to alternative methods” your obviously behind on this therapy.

And yes I did mean warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com
Email: information@vnsdepression.com

AA,

“Therefore, please don't judge me just because my experiences are different from yours Herb.” --- AA

I do not judge you or anyone. It is not for me or my place to judge. What I object to and I’ll repeat this for the umpteenth time is not the sharing of one’s personal experiences or thoughts. I often find those experiences enlightening and informative for my purposes and knowledge. I object to the generalizations and broad paint strokes often stated in these forums as if it were fact and true for all individuals, which it is not.

“But Herb and others who agree with him, you can't make assumptions from what people post on this board as to what is going on in their lives” --- AA

I am not making any assumptions. I can only read that which you and others write to these forums and then express my opinion whether in agreement or not. If you’d care to write the world is flat and I express the fact it is not, it only has to do with what was written and not with “what is going on in their lives.” Then again, how would I know what is going on in your life or that of anyone participating here unless you committed to writing the information.

What is going on in my life is expressed in my experiences and knowledge that sometimes differ from the generalizations and broad paint stokes.

Once again, I extend my sincere condolences as I wish for you only the good things you would wish for yourself.

Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com