the man is sick and twisted...I've stumbled upon his site more times than I care to as a result of google alerts. he is incredibly nauseating and condescending and I do believe he is making money by terrorizing people.

I can't articulate the fury I feel right now.

"If you have bipolar disorder, and you don't take medication for it,

"YOU ARE GOING TO DIE.

IF YOU TAKE MEDICATIONS YOU ARE GOING TO DIE.

hmmm which statement is truer??

This is plain ridiculous. Some people are successful going off medication and just having therapy. Plus I've heard of plenty of people who are on medication and kill themselves, so the theory that you won't die if you take medicine is bogus. Frankly this sounds like a ploy to sell medicine and not really help people.

Well...we're ALL going to die, aren't we? Eventually?

Dearest Philip:
I just wanted to start with this quote from the article and my inserted comments from a bipolar that is not taking medications:

"If you have bipolar disorder, and you don't take medication for it,
"YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. Insert: (still waiting? Maybe nature will take its course, but then if that is the case you better get some meds too, because you’re dyeing also in the boarder scheme of things! May I suggest a few? LOL)
"So, ok, I know I am going to get some
hate mail, I understand that. Insert: (hate mail? What for? You’re obvious misguidance on this issue?)
"But maybe others will open up their
eyes and in those cases maybe I will
actually save some lives. Insert: (eyes are wide open and I don’t buy your Bull still, of course that Bull could create good compost for the flowers I will need for my upcoming funeral LOL)
"Because it is TRUE! Insert: (your truth, does not constitute in all reality actual truth)
"If you have bipolar disorder and you
won't take your medication, or you
don't even believe in taking
medication, YOU WILL DIE! Insert: (I’m still alive and kicking? Can you predict the end of the world too? How about the winning lotto numbers? I could sure use those LOL)
"But the side effects CAN be managed! Insert: (Managed by my death or irreversible damage caused from the medications?)
Just ask your doctor! Side effects should
NEVER be a reason for going off your
medication. Insert: (Naïve, and so coming from someone that doesn’t have bipolar and dealt with psych doc’s on a regular basis)
"Others have stopped their medications
because they believed they no longer had
Bipolar disorder. THAT IS A LIE! Once you
have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder,
you will ALWAYS HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER!" Insert: (you are a real party pooper Oliver! I just starting to think the CIA genetically altered penguins had come up with a cure for my bipolar! Damn it! Now you have pissed me off!!!)

Unfortunately if this was the truth in all cases; I would be sitting here typing this as a corpse, instead of a bipolar who has gone through just about every bipolar medication typical and atypical now on the market. So I guess I’m living proof that he is either completely naive, has a personal or pharma agenda to propagate on those that suffer with mood disorders, or is just out of touch with the lived reality of those that live with bipolar disorder. Accepted Statistical data has shown 15-20 % of those with mood disorders that are either medication intolerant, or show no beneficial effects from their use. In my particular case I have now not only have bipolar disorder to try to keep under control without effective medication intervention, but also type 2 diabetes directly related to Seroquel use to add to this daily struggle ( so put that pipe and smoke it; as that fact weighs in on your theoretical suicide chart. There are countless other ways to live with bipolar without being medicated into a stupor and live with disabling side effects. I don’t want to come across as one those no medication at all cost fringe element wackos. I just happen to know that what is one bipolar’s blessing and an effective medication intervention, is a pill of utter poison for another bipolar in a similar situation. I get a little more than frustrated with these supposed know it all types, that haven’t taken these medications and live through the life threatening side effects that arise from their use. Of course I would be naive myself if I wasn’t concerned these dramatic changes in my health status have now increased my statically rick for suicide or dramatically shortened life span. So here I will insert an article comment I had featured on Liz Spikol’s Blog “The Trouble with Spikol”

Unfortunately there is no upside to the tragedy of suicide. There are the victims that leave us, and the victims that are left behind. Sadly there is more than enough anger and torment left behind to touch everyone involved. That goes with the so many unanswered questions of why? As we that are emotional attached to that person ask ourselves why didn’t I see this ugly event coming? It’s like questioning ourselves over something like a bad weather event or an earth quake that we have little or no power to control.
There are also those thought to be crowned selfish for what they feel; yet hold on to quite valid questions of why would someone that cared about me, and professed to love me: betray me in such a heartless and brutal fashion? All these emotions are valid, and will surely be felt in a broad spectrum of intensity and measure.
I heard so many times from those sitting in the bleachers as unattached on lookers; tauntingly grumbling from those seats so ardently and articulately that those that commit suicide are weak and take the easy way out. I happen to believe that is so far from the lived reality, and in all actuality light years from the horrific truth. I also have been to that perilous edge many times in my life, and know all too well the anguish and agony that grabbles your mind in that delusional gloominess dark, moronic, painful, hopeless, and fragile state of unbearable Hell.
As you do Liz; I have suicidal idealizations fairly often. I have learned through time and experience to embrace those times and draw strength from them; as if I was drawing buckets full of life giving water from the well of existence itself, renewing and quenching with vigor and fortitude the very thirst for this precious gift of continued breath.
There are no satisfactory summations to be made for the act of suicide; just the scattered ruins of one more life left unfulfilled, and those trying to understand and pick up the remnants of their shattered being which is never completely understood or fathomed with any true clarity or peaceful resolution in our very heart of hearts.
I guess our only hope in limiting this horrific and tragic outcome of self inflicted death is recognition, intervention, and prevention. The stark and cold reality is that neither of those options will ever be foolproof or effective in all situations. Which is sadly obvious by what the menacing data and statistics bear out on this act; whichever study you wish to believe as most accurate or valid, the numbers are still staggering.

So I find Oliver’s comments condescending, show enormous bias, and our ignorant in their very nature from Bipolarcentral.com.
I happen to be a unique individual, and refuse to fit into anyone’s box of future prediction of my demise. I reserve that natural and god given right to make my own personal choices thank you!
So if this supposed expert would like to debate this issue with a living bipolar who is off medications not by choice; but absolute necessity. I’m here waiting with baited and breathless anticipation for his enlightened argument to my daily breath. I just happen to believe he hasn’t a frigging clue about what’s he’s talking about! People are not statistics, but true living beings that are able to make healthy and conscious choices for their own well being. Thanks for continuing to pigeon hole us bipolar into the same old stigma/label creating box.

What’s next from Bipolarcentral.com? Are they going to make an informed argument to pre-natal and toddler bipolar diagnosis, and atypical anti psychotic medication use on that population also? Oliver, when you take these medications and suffer the consequences, you can come to me with your befuddling under informed hypothesis on this issue. I happen to know the stats on suicide and bipolar quite well; so please don’t blow that smoke up my posterior.
Obviously this comment has come from the walking dead! This is quite an amazing human trick even for an imaginative bipolar of unearthly abilities (The Mother ship has set laser zap mode to reality check pain wake up genre, and is tracking Oliver’s movements at this very moment LOL). I sure he is well intentioned in he obviously uniformed and ignorant conclusions, but so obviously wrong, and is propagating a fallacy to everyone that will listen. If your site is based on being a bipolar resource and educational forum; I don’t think I can in good conscious have anything to do with it with this misinformation you aspire to spread as set in stone and unequivocal truth, not allowing for any exceptions to your blind determinations, that lend both little credence and credibility too your misguided doctrine.

You’re true waking and typing Zombie:
Stan

This guy is coming from the same place that a terrific number of shrinks are in too, including Friedman in his column yesterday when he spoke of relapse and of course Nada Stotland and her ilk on The Infinite Mind. None of these people have one little clue what withdrawal is all about; without even realizing it this is the problem they are REALLY referring to: if you do not withdraw intelligently and understand withdrawal symptoms, you might die -- you are at risk of some nasty stuff. Of course they have no understanding that the real problem is chemical dependence (and dare I say it addiction) to meds and the fact they portray it instead as the "underlying disease" from which you can never be free just shows how totally under the spell of the medical model and biopsychiatry they are. It is very dangerous that people do not understand how enormous a role medication dependence, tolerance, and withdrawal are playing in mood disorders and one's inability to manage symptoms safely.

Simplistic, extremist positions on either side of this debate do not impress me. This example being one end of the spectrum.

What cruel, insentive, inaccurate dribble it is.

oh_my_god
what a self-serving asshat
I am almost (almost) speechless.

If you take the medications
note the warnings on many as well:
*there are suicide warnings on them, not
to mention the health risks*

If you cross the street-
you could DIE.
(That bit-o-knowledge will be $200, thanks.)

Huh, I'd have a lot longer life expectancy if I had gone off of lithium. And even E. Fuller Torrey says @25% of folks with bipolar fully recover with or without treatment. And E. Fuller Torrey isn't exactly "recovery" oriented.

I had more than one psychiatrist tell me I would die without meds, they both made up nonsense about mania causing heart attacks, must have been the popular ruse back in the '80's, but I believed it and now I have kidney failure as a result. Too bad I can't go back and sue those 2 for lying to me. An internist subsequently told me there was no such thing as heart problems from mania.

Yeah, lie to folks, why not? It's not as if we were "real" people like him. Feh.

What do I think?

Oh , well, let me introduce readers to CABF, bp kids dot org and let me intro you to author George Lynn, [Wa.resident] who told me personally that if I took my "Childhood bipolar" daughter off of her meds she would and I quote kill herself by age 18"; and George Lynn, who has held "live chats" at CABF, told me that in person, at a seminar. I bought a black skirt and blouse after that.

Years later, as I finally figured out this bullshit, I donated my outfit to charity and have been fighting this crap ever since.

I believe this man's mother has "bipolar disorder" like I believe Elvis has been sighted in Las Vegas.

This man is a shrewd entrepeneur who realized that there was a gold mine to be made in this 'bipolar" over diagnosis. The newspapers are filled with stories of people with "bipolar" and many celebrities claim to have this disorder so he saw where he could make a quick, easy buck.

As for the "you will die if you go off your meds", that was probably a statement to give him some insurance in case someone went off their meds, went into withdrawal, became really sick from the withdrawal symtpoms, and then sued him.

Some people would call him cunning & astute. I would call him a con man.

Who's paying him?

Dearest Philip:

I decided to post my comment above over at thier blog site to see what kind of reaction I got. LOL Please excuse the vulgarity used by those responding to my post. But I thought you might find a little bit amusing in a twisted sort of way.

quotes:

"badline said...
I posted before I read the comments to I just want to say something to Stan.

I heave heard of many bipolar people who have had bad reactions to every medication. A lot of them resorted to Electric shock treatments and it made it so they reacted well to a small amount of medication without side effects. You should go back to the doctor and see what options you have. Especially if you have huge manic episodes. Manic episodes always end in trauma, confusion and pain.

Karen said...
Hey Stan,
My husband hung himself (not on Meds) my daughter is very ill, I will not kill myself because mommy is a homicidial bipo bitch. I will keep this short for you Stan because you are in the wrong fucking house, and you do not have a fucking clue and you probably cant fucking read and retain, FUCK OFF STAN, this blog is a possitive one, David has saved me from a lengthy prison sentance and my daughter's worst. I got your back David, Leave us Stan, go look in the mirror at the ugly oozzing out of you and cry like a bitch, might free that brain up of yours so you can actually think, Fuck head.
Dave sorry for the bad laguage I did call the doc. for that tune up If I do not call them by 1:00 tomarrow they will sent out the head-hunters. What the fuck is a stan anyway? lol lol"

My retort:

What can I say LOL Karen just when I think it's not possible for someone to be that ignorant and rude; I find myself cacophonously unsurprised by it. This David fellow is obviously just another profiteer and charlatan misusing data and God's name in the name of pure greed. Those types always suck in the most vulnerable and weak. How about trying to defend this absolute fantastical hypocrisy stated on this site and blog with some real rational and realistic arguments, instead of the folly of emotionally based ignorance you display so well. Oh, that's right; you are not up to anything more than ranting vulgarity. May God bless you eternally for your caring, thoughtful, and loving demeanor!

Yours Truly
Stan

PS if you’re at all interested in the truth, some real data, and debate; visit "Furious Seasons Blog" for a little better insight into bipolar, and how the medical model of treatment is but a pharmaceutical promotion for profit (personal comment), not all about your well being and treatment: and definitely not the all mighty end all of end alls for thoughtless sheep like yourself believe it is hyped up to be.

I now know why you chose not to way in on them with your comments Philip LOL

yours truly
Stan

This guy really arguing that it's okay to murder people to prevent them from later committing suicide. He should be jailed for doling out such absurd advice.

On the bipolarparenting link he asks, "Can you imagine asking a mentally ill person to determine whether or not their medication is effective?" and then calls the doctor who suggested that "a moron." This guy makes Fuller Torrey seem like a class act. At least Mr. Cat Poop doesn't try to scare families into paying $200 for his bs advice.

Wow. And, um, WOW! Kinda strange that several studies have linked taking antipsychotics (as many bipolar folks do) to decreased lifespans in patients with schizophrenia, yet not taking meds will kill you. If the schizophrenia findings hold true for bipolar, then wouldn't this guy's statements be all the more ludicrous?

Wow! Definitely a heated discussion here.

I am compelled to give my 2 cents and that may be all it is worth if that much, but here it is: People who are truly concerned for others and want to help those in need or who are acting and making decision based on desperation and fear would never consider accepting a dime from such people and if they did so could not possibly have a clear conscious unless of course they do not possess one! Which leads me to this:

One should never offer advice in any form or fashion unless specifically asked to do so and even then one should refrain from ever offering advice unless they are willing to live with any potential ill effects that may come from another acting on the advice given. Offering advice is much like offering a personal opinion. Just as everyone has an opinion they also have advice. Now one must ask if the person who has advice to offer actually has advice that is of any value, of course the person who eagerly has advice to offer believes his/her advice is of high value (usually only to them) otherwise they would have no advice to offer ever! Do we not owe it to ourselves to ask who has something to gain from this advice? Would it be the person giving the advice or the person receiving the advice and what is the gain for either? I choose to believe that the majority of those who offer advice do so with the best of intentions, but even with the best of intentions from which the advice is offered would the advice not carry a tremendous potential of causing harm if the person receiving the advice based their decisions solely upon the advice offered them? Seriously! Any man or woman with a miniscule amount of wisdom would never advice another of how to live their life, what decision to make or how to make it, how to act or react, etc. Thus giving or receiving advice is much like the roll of the dice! Either or both would most likely lose! So before accepting or asking for advice consider this: Advice… Who is all knowing and of such grand intellect that they can offer such with certainty that the advice they offer could never cause harm?

To Quote David Oliver, “To Bipolars: No Meds Equals Death” Did any of you just see or read the words from the ‘All Knowing’? This jargon reminds me of those who have no qualm of judging another and blatantly informing them that they are going straight to hell because they do not believe the same as or act in the same manner as the almighty cult profit! David, may I ask you to giver references and statistics from independent studies (in other words not information obtained from scientist who are paid directly by a pharmaceutical company or from a Medical doctor who is directly employed by one either.) I have spent years researching - one of the first things I learned along the path was to always seek out the independent studies. It is from the those who do clinical research where the findings of their published studies does not jeopardize their livelihood if the conclusion of their studies are not along the lines of what their employers need them to be. I am of an open mind and prefer to base my beliefs and glean my intellect from a variety of scientific publications. My opinions and judgments are drawn from this gathering. We can chose to be ignorant which allows us to remain a member of the herd – Know that to be a member of the herd means you chose to follow blindly and that my friend is the epitome of ignorance by choice! It will be the demise of our society when all chose to be a member of the herd!

I was told once by a man I consider a wise man: “Don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see” “Question everything and find your own answers” and most importantly, “To Thy Own Self Be True” You all have a choice regarding the above mentioned quote – you can chose to believe (follow blindly) his words as fact or you can question his words and find your own truth through self educating as all intellects do!

Written below is a copy and paste. I will not state a name when making a direct quote as I cannot authenticate who the actual author is.

”Hey Stan,
My husband hung himself (not on Meds) my daughter is very ill, I will not kill myself because mommy is a homicidial bipo bitch. I will keep this short for you Stan because you are in the wrong fucking house, and you do not have a fucking clue and you probably cant fucking read and retain, FUCK OFF STAN, this blog is a possitive one, David has saved me from a lengthy prison sentance and my daughter's worst. I got your back David, Leave us Stan, go look in the mirror at the ugly oozzing out of you and cry like a bitch, might free that brain up of yours so you can actually think, Fuck head.
Dave sorry for the bad laguage I did call the doc. for that tune up If I do not call them by 1:00 tomarrow they will sent out the head-hunters. What the fuck is a stan anyway? lol lol"

First and foremost please know that it was in reading the above quote post that I felt compelled to reply.

I am happy to hear that David ‘saved’ you. What David saved you from cannot be discerned by the reader from which you wrote. Never the less - whatever it was he saved you from I am truly glad he did!

Quote: “this blog is a positive one,” I’m sorry but I fail to see one single positive thing written in your post! I can find nothing that even resembles something positive in anything you wrote above. Did you know that when you point the finger at someone you have three pointing right back at you? It has most always been my experience that those of a higher intellect can and do refrain from the use of profane words when attempting to communicate with others. Profanity is considered offensive by many people. Consideration and thought of others is always appreciated.

When posting to a blog it is always in the authors best interest to use spell check so that others will not auto assume you are stupid or ignorant. It seems humans by nature tend to think the worst and judge harshly on a first impression. When simple words like ‘positive, homicidal, sentence, and language’ are misspelled within a small paragraph humans are always quick to judge and decide.

To my hearts despair - again I find another person who believes they have the right to tread on others. When you wrote those mean and ugly things to Stan how did it make you feel? Was it empowering? Did it make your heart feel light and happy? Did anything that could remotely be considered good come from the words you wrote?

Do you think your use of the English language has made others view you in a positive light? Do you think others see you as a kind, caring and considerate person? Do you think your actions, choice of words and your malicious attack on a fellow human being will draw the readers over to cause? Is it You or Stan who does not have a clue? Since you asked this question, “What the **** is a Stan anyway?” I will tell you what ‘a Stan is’. Stan is a human being just like you, me and everyone else who reads this. Stan is a living breathing human being, he bleeds the same red blood, experiences the same feelings and emotions as the rest of us do… Do I need to say more or did you get that clue?

TO SEE SOMETHING IN SOMEONE ELSE WE HAD TO HAVE SEEN IT IN OURSELVES FIRST OTHERWISE WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE RECOGNIZE WHAT WE SEE IN THEM ©

I will depart with one last quote from my pharmacology instructor. Her opening statement on our first day of lecture on pharmacology will forever remain burned in my mind! She opened her lecture with these words, “Drugs Are Poison – They Can and Do Kill!” She then went on to explain to us that while she was attending a seminar several years ago the guest speaker there was a Pharmacist and his opening words to his audience were, “Drugs are Poison – They Can and Do Kill”. Naturally with a class of 300 students there to learn about medications used to treat illness and diseases our instructor had to follow through and she did with this, “You can never be safe enough when dispensing or taking medications. One or thousands can take the same drug and have no adverse reactions from it yet one person may take that exact same medication in the exact same dose and die from it!” Nobody ever knows how they or someone else will react to any particular medication until it is taken. Personally I sit on both sides of the fence when it comes to medications. For some people medication(s) can be a life saver; however, for others medications can be a killer. I had a friend who was taking Prozac (she was on it for 6 months). When she told me she was taking it I asked her why because I had never noticed any signs or symptoms of depression or any other mood disorder in her. Her answer to me was, “I have been feeling a little down, I don’t know if I want to be married anymore, I still love my husband very much. I’m just confused.” After hearing her say that I did not think anymore about it, after all we were always hanging out at the softball park with the kids and having coffee together on a regular basis. Close to the end of the six month use of Prozac I got a phone call from her husband. He had just come home from work and found her dead in the front seat of her car which was parked in the closed garage! Do Drugs Kill? Do drugs save lives? The answer is yes and no – the answer definitely depends on who, what, why, and how many drugs are involved… But mostly how the drug(s) affect the person who is taking them! There is no wrong or right answer here 

What did Barnum (of Barnum and Bailey)say?
'There's a sucker born every minute'?

This guy's a piece of work.

Duane

it took me over 2oyrs to find out what i was suffering from.iwent to doctor after doctor.oh its in your head they would say.i suffer anziety.maniabipolar2 and conpulsive behaveior.i was sick for a month my doctor sent me to a very good doctor.i was so glade i now know what i suffer from.i asked him why no other doctor new this he said they were not listening.he saved my live,but i do have my good and bad days.thank u donnahook.

Wow, I dont know what to think anymore except thank you Stan. My father committed suicide when I was 18-think he was biopolar. Then I met a guy named Greg and after a year of turbulence we found out he was biopolar. He went on lithium for 2 weeks and felt like he had to get to know a whole new him and his mates told him he'd become 'withdrawn and not the same funny guy' so he went off it. Eventually his doctor put him on arrowpax, 3 months later he hung himself. No one helped to educate us back then (3 years ago). I found stans write up on suicide very interesting and related to every word, I still beat myself up over the what if's and why didnt I's. Greg was my soulmate. I think you are wright about medication because when I think back there was a time when greg was on bail conditions due to a destructive outburst. The bail conditions were to be home before 9pm and no alcohol or drugs. When I think back he was the best he had ever been in our relationship, calm, loving and opptimistic about his biopolar. You see he had been told so much CRAP that I feel he always tried to self-medicate himself with dope or alcohol or whatever he could get his hands on. His friends didn't help giving it to him, but it wasn't their fault as Greg hated any1 knowing he was biopolar. I have been trying to do research as I have a 5 year old son with the late Greg and had heard the gene is passed on to children. After reading olivers stuff I FREAKED, he claims that any parent not getting treatment for biopolar child is not good for the child, and can be done for neglegence!! Here I was thinking if I don't pay out all this money (which I can't afford even a specialist here in N.Z) then my son could go into government custody and I can be done for neglegence. All I wanted to do was educate myself for Navah, just incase he has it too, and for Greg and what we couldn't do for him. I am grateful I have found Stan, he's the MAN! Your a funny guy and know how to get your point across, don't listen to that women I think she is the EXTREME of biopolar herself and should go get on Mr Olivers meds, I hope you didn't take to heart what crap she wrote Stan. I think I am an undiagnosed biopolar but my kids save me from any kind of thoughts of suicide. Even the day I buried Greg I just wanted to jump in with him!! I think all we can do is surround ourselves with people that care and understand what we are going through, don't know what to think about meds now, I mean biopolar has been around for years, generations, or how else could we get the gene. How many suicides were there 100 years ago when no1 knew what it was, compared to today. Back then they were un-educated about it and just had to soldier on. Maybe it's all the talk of being labeled 'biopolar' and the medications that is causing the suicide rate to climb all around the world. Wondering what people will think if they find out you are biopolar is enough to send some1 over the edge. I come from Waiuku a very small town in N.Z not even big enough to have a McDonalds yet. There it is uncool and your laughed at if you have a mental illness. Waiuku has 1 of the worst suicide rates in the world. At least 20 a year, and everyone knows everyone so suicide is like a cancer in that town. So im guessing now it might actually have alot to do with what people say about you, or to you that triggers the chemicals to unbalance. I don't know. I just want to be on the alert for my son, if any1 could point me to the proper sites that don't make you feel like this is a jail sentance, that would be great. Any POSITIVE advise would be much apprieciated.

Love to you Stan
KIA KAHA BRO
in maori means- stand strong bro!!

Thanks again

Angie

Holy cow. Hasn't anyone clued this guy in to the fact that, meds or no, we're ALL going to die???

I just lost my lunch.

Meanwhile some of us would do anything short of selling our souls to have that kind of hits this man gets.