I agree with Sara that we need to know so much more about these drugs, especially before handing them out like after dinner mints.

Her point that the SSRIs are not the sole cause is probably accurate. Even the murder-suicide civil trial in Wyoming only blamed the Paxil for 80% of the tragedy. People who are very vulnerable, for instance a poor liver function where they are not metabolizing the SSRI correctly, or a poor responder like Steve K was as a youth, are especially prone to tragic incidents.

I believe there is a wealth of information available but nobody is using it. So far SSRI Stories has only had one scientific researcher who we know is using SSRI Stories and this is to study the interaction between SSRIs/violence & alcohol.

There are close to 30 Journal Articles on SSRI Stories and they are listed third from the top after the school shooting and the cases that were "won". For instance, one of these articles is a scientific study which showed that unmedicated ANXIOUS people have 8 times more serotonin in their brain than people who are not anxious. One of the phenomena I noticed on SSRI Stories was how many of these tragedies were committed by people who were anxious and agitated as opposed to just plain depressed.

Thank you for listening.

Sara, nicely said, but by now the evidence that SSRIS and SNRIs are a public menace should lead to the Precautioanry principle being invoked, but for powerful financial interests, and the inertia of modern pharmaceutical medicine.

Rosie,

Thank you for your great work. As one who became severely agiatated on Celexa and became enraged, I am convinced that if I had listened to my doctor's advice to stay on it that I would have been headed for trouble big time. I am getting a chill reading yoru statement that people who committed these crimes were agiatated.

By the way, it was just plain luck that I didn't listen. I had no clue that SSRIs could be so deadly at the time. Anyway, because I couldn't imagine myself feeling like this every day until the side effect supposedly disappeared (I realize that might not have been the case), I simply refused to continue on the drug and went back to what I was taking which had been causing foot pain. But I felt that was preferable to being agiatated any day.

AA

Sara, I truly am sorry for the loss of your daughter, and admire you for your determination that I know you hope could save someone else's life.

I just wanted to let readers know I posted an apology to Lizzie and to others who claim Prozac has "saved their life" in the thread where this comment originally appeared. I simply meant to point out that others, not Lizzie, do sometimes assume that just because Prozac is doing them good, therefore it can't be of harm to others. I do not deny that Prozac can make someone feel better for a certain period of time, usually because of a stimulating or blunting effect (rather than true "healing" however IMO). I just caution all Prozac believers to educate themselves so that if and when they do want to come off they understand withdrawal and side effects and the ride they may be in for.

Sara, good comments but please understand that some people (not you) HAVE been talking as if the antidepressant link is the answer to everything, and that is what some of us have been reacting against. I think the point is that this kind of reductionism on either side serves no one. I agree, it is a question of proximate cause, and based on my own experience I have no doubt that these drugs can trigger unpredictable and perhaps dangerous states in some individuals. So can alcohol but at least there has been some effort to educate the public about its risks. I think we need some sort of public awareness campaign for ADs, but it may be a mistake to focus too much on (still rare and poorly understood) incidents of gun violence like this one. The risks of serious mood destabilization because of manic response or abrupt withdrawal (etc.) are well documented, affect a lot more people, and fully merit pubic awareness in their own right.

Of course it's unlikely that a pill is completely to blame for a crime, or is it? In the psych drugs situation, we have people, on the edge, who seek medical help and instead get a pill which pushes them over the edge.

While I think the insanity defense is wrong and does much more harm than good, I think that in some cases the involuntary intoxication defense is a valid one. SSRI crimes are an example of involuntary intoxication where one is told by a doctor or other mhp they have a medical condition that makes it morally wrong and dangerous for them to trust their own judgment and that they thus must take an ssri for the safety of themselves and their loved ones, when in fact the drug makes the person more dangerous. The doctors don't always know what they're doing is wrong but I'd say they usually do. What most people who go to pshrinks need to hear is this: "life is hard. Taking a pill won't solve your problems." What they get instead is a pill so they'll pay the phsrink and go away (until the next med check). Tragic, simply tragic.

It's interesting that a year ago pharma and the mh industry denied that there were any withdrawal symptoms. Now they admit it but of course blame it on the patient, still the admission is a small step in the right direction.

"And if one more person who claims Prozac has "saved their life" and, therefore, thinks that someone else had control over what they did while they were on Prozac, I think I'm going to puke."

And the result of this comment disengaged Lizzie from conversation and reading this site due to simply stating Prozac helped her.

In my opinion, if one wants to "educate" someone, this isn't the way to do it.

It's too bad Lizzie disengaged. For what it's worth, I think Prozac and other ssri's remove anxiety. If the anxiety that is removed is unhealthy,they can help, if not, they can hurt. If someone is in touch with their feelings, emotions, and the effects that drugs have on them, then sure, ssri's might help. If not, it's a risk. I would imagine lots of people feel that LSD expanded their minds and greatly improved their lives, and yet, Eli Lilly doesn't prescribe it. There are reasons for this, but this is not to say that if someone is lucky enough to have been helped by ssri's or even by "therapy" they are bad or wrong.

It is weird that none of these mass murders seem to involve illegal drugs. No marijuana, cocaine, meth...odd.

and who exactly was 'lizzie'? Did she come to this site just to defend prozac? Thats odd behaviour for a patient...

brian: lizzie runs her own blog called bipolar journey. she simply came here to make a comment and share her experiences.