October 17, 2007

Reader Question On Off-Meds Guide

Yesterday, I mentioned that The Icarus Project and the Freedom Center had teamed up to publish a guide to coming off psych meds entitled the "Harm Reduction Guide To Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs." You can read the guide for yourself here (it even has very nice illustrations). In response a reader asked me the following:

"I want your opinion related to the central question of this piece: Do you think anyone should be able to stop taking meds against the wishes of the doctor? This document suggests 1) making a case to your doctor as to why you should go off and if that doesn't work, 2) either switch doctors or go ahead without telling the doctor.

"What do you think?"

In general, the answer is yes. Only under a few circumstances--involuntary commitment and outpatient commitment being two--does a doctor have the legal and medical authority to compel someone to stay on a given medication, or any medication whatsoever. Other than those exceptions, you are boss of your own body and captain of your soul, a free-willed actor in the universe. (Unless you are running around violating the law, in which case you'll likely wind up in involuntary commitment, outpatient commitment or jail.)

But the corollary to the question is whether the doctor's judgment might not be better than the patient's as to what makes sense for a patient. There really is not a clean way to resolve that question absent a patient going off med X and seeing what there is to see. Getting a second opinion from another doctor might also be another way to test the first doctor's judgment. Second opinions are something that people don't tend to avail themselves of enough in the pysch world, and I am usually stunned by how often psych docs will contradict one another on treatment.

I do think that it's generally a good idea to have your own doctor be supportive of going off-meds, and of encouraging a patient to seek alternative answers to psychological questions. Any doc who thinks he or she is the lawgiver for a particular patient, or who is convinced that he or she has the Answer to the riddle at the middle of the universe is as destructive in their way as a schizophrenic who just flushed his meds down the toilet, took a few hits off a crack pipe and set off into the night with a Glock.

No matter direction a patient or their doc goes in, it's probably wisest to proceed slowly and cautiously.

Posted by Philip Dawdy at October 17, 2007 12:03 AM
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Comments

Second opinion = good idea. In the world of non psychiatric medicine, if a doctor recommends a treatment for a patient, like surgery, the insurance company will often insist on a second opinion before approving treatment. If a doctor tells you you have a mental illness, you should certainly get a second opinion.

If a doctor recommends a course of treatment you don't agree with, you should get a second opinion, again, outside of the psych world people do this all of the time. In fact, most people have their stories of regular medical doctors being wrong.

Oh, wait, most of us can't even afford the first one and get our care through some underfunded, incompetent community mental health system that employs the lowest paid, bottom of the barrel folks - and of course every now and then some excellent, committed (not like that;), people.

Posted by: Sally at October 17, 2007 07:21 AM

Our hospital board reports that 20% of in-patients are involuntary and I assume the official percentage for out-patients is about the same, or even higher.

However, those are just the patients that have the paperwork done on them. There's also a huge number of "voluntary" patients who are being coerced into taking drugs, because they fear (rightly) being made involuntary and thrown into the psych ward.

If anybody is being threatened with coerced drugging, they must seek legal help. Every patient needs an advocate. If you're in British Columbia, contact the Community Legal Assistance Society at 1-888-685-6222. CLAS provides free legal assistance to those in need.

Posted by: Francesca Allan at October 17, 2007 07:23 AM

I also think that people forget that they have hired their doctor. The doctor works for YOU.You pay for their service.

If the outcome is less than desirable, or friction happens in your belief vs. doctor--then walk out and get a new one.

The first thing I did when I found my psych was to discuss my open-minded approach to meds, alternatives, my strong-willed opinions, and my desire to have open talks that challenges the current paradigm, and if he said, "I'm the doctor", I would have walked out. It's like an interview for the best reason. Most all of my appointments are major discussions across the board regarding mental wellness, why doctors need to pay attention to withdrawals, and even Pharma reps. It's worth every penny for those discussions that are candid and usually humorous as well. Especially considering I walk in there with about 100 topics for 30 minutes. He only rx meds to me if I want them, and I say what I take.When something doesnt work, I tell him all of the reasons. That's the kind of doctor ppl must find. One that works with you not against.

Posted by: Stephany at October 17, 2007 09:08 AM

Not only do people face discouragment from their doctors and families, but also their peers. Whenever I bring up the fact that it's their body, not the doctor's, and it's their choice whether or not to go off meds -- basically everything you wrote in this post -- I catch so much heat. "People NEED their medication!" or "You are setting people up for failure!" or "What if they commit suicide?" I can understand such feedback (unfortunately) from the doctors and even the families but peers as well? It is very common and very frustrating.

Posted by: Jayme at October 18, 2007 06:52 AM

And then there is the problem of insurance.
I had to get special permission from my insurance company to get in to see my choice of pdoc. A female. Over the years though when we didn't see eye to eye on things, she would say that she can not be my doctor unless I followed her rules thus threatening discharge...so I am the child and she is a god....
she actually said that I had to believe like jesus, have faith...incredible!
I am thankful for her though, the last pdoc I had let me go manic on prozac....

Posted by: bizi at October 19, 2007 08:57 AM

Here's how I got off meds one time: My psychiatrist (who later lost his license) was a really neat guy who probably has more problems than I do. I like him very much as a person to this day, but his clinical judgement really sucked.

At one point he decided that all would be well if only I had a baby! How incredible. He was so convinced he even offered to come see me in the hospital post-partum because I was at such high risk for post-partum depression. I've ALWAYS known getting pregnant would be akin to tying a big rock around my neck and jumping into a lake and was appalled at Jeff's lack of judgement.

I had learned by then that simply quitting the meds was a terrible idea, but didn't know how to taper off myself. No psydoc in my area would DREAM of taking a patient off meds--they'd only want to add more. But I really wanted to get off the tricyclic that had done little for the depression and caused a 30-pound weight gain.

So, on my next appointment I went in and smiled sweetly and told Jeff "My husband and I have decided we want to have a baby. Of course, I'll have to get off the meds and need your help in doing this." He obliged, I got off the meds and I was outta there.

Posted by: Sherry at November 12, 2007 06:42 AM
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