October 31, 2007

Psychologists Offer Critiques On Critique Of Psychiatry

Two psychologists offered responses to yesterday's posting and commentary on Bruce Levine's bashing of the psychiatric profession.

First up is John Grohol of Psych Central.

"I feel profession bashing is too easy to do, and you have to take as good as you give. For instance, psychologists shouldn’t be proud of their own professional association’s tortured stance on, well, torture, flip-flopping like a fish out of water over the past year. Which has been heatedly opposed by many of its own members (resulting in Sharon Brehm’s (PDF) and Beth Shinn’s resignations, among many others).

"Nor should they be proud of their continued push away from their roots in psychology and behavior to wanting to prescribe all those wonderful psychiatric medications. The same medications Bruce Levine says has corrupted the field of psychiatry.

"I hope he and other psychologists see the irony here, because we, as a profession, are sadly doomed to repeat the mistakes of other professions if we learn nothing from them."

Those are fabulous points. Like John, I am fairly dubious of psychologists and therapists prescribing meds. I'm sure they'd do no worse than psychiatrists and PCPs already are--and that's just the problem.

And Cheryl Fuller, who writes the excellent Jung At Heart blog (one of the best blog names ever) offered this in comments on this site:

"Levine's critique is good as far as it goes, but he seems to overlook some of the pressures within psychiatry to move so dramatically to a biological model. Surely the fact that they lost exclusive control over the therapy field as other disciplines such as psychology, social work, counseling and nursing developed license-eligible clinical training programs is a piece of it. Plus psychiatrists have been on the low end incomes for physicians. Other physicians have often viewed them as not "real" doctors. Likely these pressures laid the groundwork that Big Pharma has been so able to build on.

"And sadly, we psychologists are not innocents in all of this either. In our haste to make ourselves "scientists" we have become captive to outcomes studies, neuroscience and the like just as much as psychiatrists have been -- there's just not as much money in it for us as for them."

Great points by both, for which I thank them.

Posted by Philip Dawdy at October 31, 2007 12:05 AM
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Comments

Ac, my previous post sounded so shrill. I guess I was trying to make the point that the various "mental health" professions have very little respect for each other.

Posted by: Sally at October 31, 2007 06:01 AM

Those are excellent points all right, but it should also be said that Dr. Levine is not jumping on some trendy bandwagon or playing a new rogue psychologist. His reputation should precede him and I think his body of work shows he's always taken the right oppositional stands. I for one am happy he's getting some mainstream coverage, and see he's getting hammered in the comments over there, but he's not even begun to hit his stride.

Posted by: flawedplan at October 31, 2007 07:19 AM

Psychiatrists on the low end of incomes for MD's? I'm skeptical of this. From my casual reading, psychiatrists (especially if you factor in lifestyle, especially hours/week) do just fine. They often make more than family practitioners, general internists and pediatricians.

Some psychiatrists, in private practice or in forensics for example, easily make "surgeon salaries" but with much higher job satisfaction, less stress, etc.

Now are psychiatrists *perceived* as making less? Sure, that I grant.

Posted by: Dev Thakur at October 31, 2007 10:32 AM

I keep reading that psychiatrists are doing very well, thank you, due to consultation and expert roles they play presenting the strengths of a Pharma company's drug to their fellows. The Vermont and Minnesota studies revealed a lot of Pharma cash being shovelled their way. Academic medical centers are beginning to realize their reputations are at stake and so are trying to barsome of these practices. Even students are in on the act. Call 703-630-6600 x217 to order your "No more pharma" pens.

Posted by: Ghost at October 31, 2007 09:00 PM

I found this doctor/salary chart on the net.

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

I don't know how accurate it is but it puts pshrinks at the lowest end of the spectrum. Sadly, internal medicine is there too. I would imagine its this relative low pay plus psychiatrists' (appropriate) inferiority complex that makes them so susceptible to bribes. Also, I think they're more likely than other docs to make most of their living as expert witnesses.

Posted by: Sally at November 1, 2007 07:08 AM

I only wish I made 140.00 every 30 minutes, while not billing insurance and demanding payment at the time of service. [while working a 4 day week].[this is my own experience w my own psych, who is great--but dude.]

Posted by: Stephany at November 1, 2007 10:17 AM
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