Wow, Anonymous! That sounds just like my story. But, wait, that was me! It's all coming back to me now.

I think it's awful to have to be looking over your shoulder and having fear of everything written here.

Yep, in my efforts to be allowed to take a bar exam so I can be a lawyer because I've graduated from law school, I've found that having it in my medical record that I've been treated for bipolar disorder is a greater barrier than being a convicted felon. Convicted felons can get their records sealed and can have their legal rights restored, but if you are labeled with a Severe Mental Illness (per the bar, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or any other psychotic disorder), you can never have that removed from your record. Even a misdiagnosis makes you suspect.

And you can't own a gun or have a permit either. Only one that can restore that right is a Judge, and then it's via jumping through hoops to "prove" compliance. Due to being an officially dx mental health patient who was involuntarily committed off medications, the right to own a gun is gone. I find it interesting, that the law didn't stop there. Why not cutlery or machetes, hell even shoes, or fists, my point is many rights and human dignities are removed due to mental illness as a label in a system, the person is not reviewed or looked at, the file and it's case# is. And that case and file # can and will be used against a person the rest of their life.
My daughter was ITA[involuntary committed]by a doctor when her insurance ran out.The doctor convinced me that it was a "simple thing they do all of the time, because of lack of insurance". I had no idea, I was coerced by medical professionals with these words, "trust me". I didnt know what I was doing until the MHP handed me the court order. Call me stupid, or call me a mother who used to listen to doctors, because that's what people do and now I challenge it all. Though I tread lightly, I listen, take notes, and am still taking notes. One day, I will be a public speaker about all of it. Until then, I'm in a constant learning lesson.

stephany, you only have the gun thing half-right. first, each state has slightly different laws concerning what level of psych treatment would bar someone from owning a gun. on the federal level the standard is mental defective (meaning completely wigged out). in wash state, you can own a gun with a psych history unless you have been committed to a hospital. even then a judge can later restore your rights. i'm sure some other states are harsher. the bottom line is that if you've never been hospitalized, then you are in the clear. if you have been, there may be some infringement on your ability to buy a handgun (not a rifle however) but it's one that can be corrected. i don't know of anywhere where there is an outright ban on gun ownership due to mh dx.

if others have more info i'd like to know it.

When my case settles I'll have a court order saying my involuntary civil commitment was void, invalid, completely without cause so I'll only be subject to the social, not the legal, stigma, at least overtly. I don't think there's an outright ban on gun ownership due to smi dx. It's the legal finding of mental incompetence necessary to have one committed that makes gun ownership difficult, as well as, in some states, getting a drivers license and having access to your own funds. I think we'll here more complaints about this as the field of "elder law" heats up. Elder law is, to a large part, about having your "older" relatives declared incompetent so that you can be in charge of their estate, which, while sometimes appropriate, is sometimes an excuse for the kids and/or siblings or cousins to move into your house and blow your money. I bet AARP will even begin taking a stand on this as boomers continue to act young in their 70's and 80's. I bet (and hope) "senility" will become a diagnosis heavily litigated by people old enough to be wrongfully accused of such and wealthy enough to hire lawyers.

Professions are often barred to people with smi diagnoses because any higher paying job usually involves judgment. According to the DSM, if you are bipolar/schizophrenic/depressed, etc., you don't have judgment which if an essential function of a job, will make it legal to discriminate against you under the ADA. Again, sue over those false diagnoses, they are harming you...especially since a) the criteria for them are for the most part made up; b) there is no medical evidence that any psychiatric condition is chronic rather than acute; and, c) there is no evidence that someone who is mentally ill is unable to tell right from wrong, regardless of what the TAC and your slimy neighborhood criminal defense lawyer might tell you. (ps I'm so wordy this week because I'm on vacation)

"If you are committed by court order for treatment of mental illness under RCW 71.05.320, you will be barred from the possession of firearms."

That piece of paper was given to me by the Judge, on behalf of my daughter. [state of Wa.]the fine print of the documents state a Judge has to clear a person for reinstatement of firearm possession, and the way it reads appears to be a difficult process.

Oh I was wrote my first comment based on being committed involuntarily.

From what I understand about Texas, I think you have to have been involuntarily committed before you show up in their nifty database they check for gun purchases (exception - they don't check if it's purchased at a gun show). Being diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, Borderline and other personality disorders, schizophrenia or any psychotic disorders keeps you from obtaining certain professional licenses (e.g. physician, nurse, etc) in Texas - Major Depression is not included in that list.

Back in WWII, my grandfather was in the army stationed here in the U.S. He never went to combat.One day he took his gun and shot up the barracks, but fortunately no one was injured. They held him in a military psych unit for nine months and subjected him to ECT, before releasing him with a dx of dementia praecox (schizophrenia) and manic-depression (bipolar disorder) which would've earned him a dx of schizoaffective disorder these days. I think it was accurate in his case.
He was also an extremely violent alcoholic, although a very successful businessman and millionaire. He had a lot of connections. So, he never had a domestic violence arrest or a DWI, and when he decided to buy a couple of handguns back in the late 80's- it was no problem whatsoever,despite the nine months of involuntary commitment for misusing a firearm.He was even given a permit to carry a concealed weapon, and he did carry it everywhere.It's more of pain the butt to go into Wal-Mart and buy a craft knife than it was for him to get that gun.

I could have wrote this piece myself. I wonder how many individuals are out there, that think and feel the same way?

Hi, Mark and everybody. There are tons of us, aren't there?

Owning a gun isn't a biggie for me (we don't do that in Canada, eh?) but I've lost out on lots of other opportunities.

When I first got out of the loony bin, I wanted to volunteer with "Riding for the Disabled," an awesome organization that gets physically and/or mentally disabled kids out of their institutions now and then and takes them for pony rides. I'm an experienced horsewoman (35 years riding, owning and training) and I love kids. But did they want me? Nope. They cited "liability issues."

Bummer. Would have been good therapy for me and a help to the kids. We can thank the Treatment Advocacy Center and similarly-minded organizations for promoting this kind of fear and hatred.

Francesca,

That's really awful that they wouldn't allow you to work with them. A few years ago, I wanted to volunteer at a children's residential treatment facility doing arts and crafts a couple of times a month with teen girls. They wanted me there and even mentioned during my interview that they probably had employment for me. When I went to fill out the health form, I stupidly listed my meds that I was on at the time.Their physician(whom I never met)requested a letter from my psychiatrist stating that I was stable on those meds.He wouldn't give me one.They still wanted me to work with them, but couldn't let me without the letter, so that was that. It was really devastating to me.

When I left that psychiatrist two years ago, I went off all meds a couple of months later.A few months after that I went to apply to another agency as a volunteer. I gave no health info whatsoever.I got the job, and have been working there for over a year.In order to work with them I had to go through an NCIC check and be fingerprinted by them as well as for record at the FBI, because of contact at events with children.
I passed through all of that despite having had many involuntary hospitalizations.

These people I work with know me very well now, including my background to a certain extent, and I'm one of the most valued and trusted volunteers there.I was very cautious at first, and for many months to be careful about revealing anything too personal that might invoke prejudice.I was able to prove myself, but possibly only because I was able to preserve my privacy. It was very stressful to need to do that, but necessary.I do often have that fear of being "found out" by people who don't understand anything about mental health problems.It's going to be even harder to integrate into a paid workforce.Aside from the challenges of overcoming the mental health issues themselves,we also face huge challenges in overcoming the barriers that are created by the stigmatizing labels.

RE:Francesca Allan your idea of taking (willingly) disabled kids for a ride on ponies is a good one. I am sure they would enjoy a trip across a field or through some woods on a pony or a horse. You can still do it independantly , put up fliers or something. I only see a lawsuit if something is done wrong malicious,if/when an accident happens.

NOTE. I wasn't refering to the gun topic, when I asked how many think and feel this way. I was refering to the article.

concluding "This is why I say that a psychiatric label is forever. And although my psychiatric assault is over, these fears will never leave me."

My former (public institution) employer would insist upon all new employees filling out a four-page form that required us to indicate whether or not we'd ever had a wide variety of diseases, from depression to genital warts. While we would have already been offered a job at that point, mind you, there would still be a probationary period to get through. I threw the form in the bin and played dumb when they called to chase it up; eventually they gave up. I subsequently was responsible for hiring and/or inducting other new staff, so I would hand them the form and say 'Just lie.' After all, they had to give the form back to me, and what was to stop me from looking at it? Confidential, my ass. I understand why they'd be interested in knowing whether you had any pre-existing conditions that could be conflated with later work-related injuries, but I fail to see what that has to do with, say, genital warts. A lot of people who've never ever had so much as a cold working at that place, I'm sure.

A few months before I left, a senior colleague announced that he wanted to hire X on a temporary basis to help out with a particular project. X had been a previous employee and his psychiatric history was well known - some rather bizarre and illegal behaviour had actually gotten him fired the first time around. I know X and didn't care much for him, but I got the paperwork rolling and onto the bosses' desk. The shit hit the fan at Friday night drinks, when the boss dragged me and the other guy aside and asked us, were we fucking mad, didn't we know that X had been in a psychiatric hospital? We'd all had a lot to drink, me included. I said, a bit too loudly, "I've been in more psychiatric hospitals that X ever has and ever will be. If you can't hire him, then you'll have to fire me." That was the beginning of the end for me there.

Francesca,
I think you should keep pursuing the horse therapy work with kids. It's the one thing that I found for my daughter all of these years that gave her back the spirit she lost. I found a woman [horse owner who works w kids]who told me she had mental health issues, and that was the positive part of the whole thing, because she knew what bipolar,SZ, and all the meds are, and let my daughter be herself, and me too. Ironically 8 years later I was able to help her friend who was hearing voices the day my daughter did a victory ride last Fall. The best part was we could brush down the horses, my daughter could ride bare back, and we could talk about hearing voices, ya know?

And here I am just now catching up.

While we've all discussed troubles with gun ownership and employment, I'd like to add another issue to the mix. From the New York Times: States Face Decisions on Who Is Mentally Fit to Vote

I don't know how prevalent this issue is, but I find it damned scary.

I find that kind of scary that by being admitted your entire history would be revealed? In Canada (or my part of it) health records are sealed unless you sign a form to pass them along to another physician or institution etc... that doesn't necessarily mean they are entirely confidential--I'm not that naive.

However, if I went to a hospital where I'd never been previously and did not admit to anything (i.e. illnesses, meds on or off or whatever) then no one would be any the wiser.

Sometimes I think even if I did go to a hospital where I have been admitted it wouldn't matter as past records are held somewhere else and not in the ER where you are triaged and admitted. No one would have a clue about me on first sight and no one would probably bother to dig up old records! Too busy running around in the ER.

If they wanted to treat me like a psych case and I seemed just fine and not in need of a 72 hour hold, they'd just let me walk out.

And yes, I've had a very scary and disastrous run in with the police...came into my apartment and literally dragged me out and into the ER. Idiots.

patientanonymous, have you heard of these things called computers? They have it all in the computer system.

My daughter was dragged out of a medical floor after being admitted for dehydration and the attending doc "discovered" she was a psych patient. Who dragged her out? 2 armed security guards. After they roughed her up and yanked out her IV for fluids. One month ago.
Yeah, voting and firearms are important.

That is sad that you have such a negative reaction with the police. Imagine if you had indeed been suicidal and the cop was there to protect you. I know that I used to have unfounded fears about the police and what my psychiatric record might hold. Now I really don't care what my psychiatric record holds and I know that the police have saved my life on more than one occasion. They have always treated me with kindness and consideration and compassion unlike many nurses and doctors. In the country I live in it is very difficult to get into a hospital when you NEED treatment, let alone just because some cop might think you are crossing the street wrong. So, I don't know what to say. Are you afraid of reality or something else?

On the other hand the police can keep a person safe; personally my neighborhood police have watched over my daughter and kept her safe/ on the other side of that coin, it is the general fear of most psych patients, that if police get involved, one can be taken to an ER for assessment, and possibly hospitalized, therefore creating this atmosphere of being diagnosed with a mental illness, wanting to remain out of a psych ward, and looking over one's shoulder all of the time hoping a person doesn't end up in the backseat of a squad car or medic transport for a mental health evaluation.
So in a way having mental illness creates social paranoia, and stress based on fear of what some have experienced: inpatient psych care less than perfect outcomes.

To Mark, actually here they don't. They only have some vital information if you have been to the hospital before like your name, address, next of kin etc... None of that if you haven't been there before. And besides, that could all have changed anyway. That's why each time you visit they make you tell them what meds you're on, what conditions etc... If they already knew, why ask you? They could simply say, "I see you are on these meds, you've been hospitalized here, you have these conditions...has anything changed recently?" That never happens.

There has been a big push on trying to get computerized systems to try and link up certain pieces of patient information but it just hasn't come to fruition here.

Again, perhaps I am naive but I know I could stroll into any ER and if I didn't tell them any of my hx, they'd all be in the dark.

Perhaps I should put it to the acid test and try it!

The only way they might suspect is if I was supremely whacked out and acting out of control and then they might ask for a psych consult but if I wasn't deemed a danger to anyone or myself--just a garden variety nutjob--no 72 hour hold. They'd just send me on my way to deal with more emergent cases.

Kristin, I too have had much better experiences with the police than with psychiatric professionals. My family had a sherrifs deputy come into my bedroom at their home (where I was visiting) to get me to take me to the psych hospital not because I was acting abnormally but because he had to as the judge had signed committment papers. The deputy was kind and reasonable and helped me get out of the "hospital." Still, having a psychiatric condition on your medical records does curtail your liberty. If you think psych drugs help you, you should be allowed to take them, but for you to discount the experiences of people who choose not to is not productive and is disrespectful. I have a friend who thinks she suffers from bipolar disorder. She's also an oncology nurse. Of course she didn't tell the nursing board about the BP diagnosis or she would not be allowed to nurse. While working full time, she bought a car she was unable to pay for and is now using her BP diagnosis as an excuse to get out of car payments claiming and really thinking she was manic when she bought the car. She wasn't manic, she was doped out of her mind by her psych doctor and working full time. But her using this diagnosis of BP to get out of her financial responsibilities instead of facing the truth which is that she had a lot less money than she planned on because her boyfriend left her, will make it much harder for people like me, labeled BP who have never paid a bill late, to get a car. And of course, if she was really manic, she couldn't/shouldn't have been working fulltime as a nurse at the time she was so debilitated she couldn't make financial decisions.

It's good for you to share your experiences but remember other's experiences are valid too.

I have read all of your comments. One must believe all of them, as perceptions of the community where each of the above lives is governed by the prevailing system, stigma, and economic concerns affecting all. In my case, while living in a small town in the state of Texas, there are still some good people around who try to make a difference,however I have found little but grief and betrayal. This state is not adequately funded nor coordinated in any system concerning strictly MHMR clients, who can and should proceed with college and advanced degree work and employment. The stigma is horrendous, reinforced and with repercussions both for being on and for getting off SSDI, is quite frankly, not for the faint of heart. You will become a threatened target. There is no police protection nor community interest in changeing from this stigma. In fact, any crimes commited against you will be covered over to protect the guilty because you are MHMR diagnosed, even when you have the paperwork to support your claim. You will be sacrificed to fit the stigma. Note, this does not apply to drug or alcohol clients. After takeing required state testing to see if any services are available re education and possible training for fulltime employment, I have been advised both by state and agency alike, after almost a year, there are none, and to move out of this area, surrounding area and state, to receive the better funded, more relevant services of other states, where one could pursue such, and not be considered odd for doing so or being able to do so.