P.D. what do you see wrong with "involuntary psychiatric treatment is one of the more humiliating experiences in American society"? Did something change in psychiatry and no one tell me? What about that Timothy Souders who died in prison and was on the TV show 60 minutes. You forget that already?

The Cho guy was just the odds and percentages. Thousands of people kill themselves every year. This guy decided to take people with him before he killed himself.

Damn, I posted that entire piece on my blog Philip. My eyes glazed over at the med rant too, it seems medrants (TM) are par for the course now, but he did say Cho's medication regime should be thoroughly investigated, which sounds reasonable. But his points about involuntary commitment as a humiliation that results in turning people away from mental health care seems right on to me. I can't speak from experience, but have talked to about a hundred people who have been involuntarily committed who fit his profile.

In a way you're right about Breggin. I'm not sure a police action is what was called for after reading the details of how Cho bothered some female students. Still I admit to being appalled that Cho could get away with writing stuff like he did in the English department and not get some kind of disciplinary action -- I mean -- come on -- can any one of us older than 30 imagine getting away with stuff like that and still being allowed to return to the classroom, let alone get a passing grade? I'm sorry but I see this as enabling serious anti-social (and, sorry Robert, psychotic) behavior. Also what happened to class participation as part of one's grade? If he wasn't talking at all he should have been flunking out. Instead of getting kicked out with this stuff that scares everyone and makes them incredibly uncomfortable he gets one on one tutoring. I think there is some truth to Breggin's notion that he should have had diciplinary action rather than being protected and coddled because he was "ill"; the reality is that he was being protected while the community at large was increasingly endangered. There need to be rules about appropriate behavior and, mentally ill or not, people need to abide by them for the sake of the community at large or face some consequences.

my point is that breggin is way over the top and in his view jail is the best solution for the mentally ill because it beats a psych unit. i just don't buy that logic, no matter how messed up the psych system is.

I agree with you that jail was probably not called for here but I think being suspended from college or at least put on probation might have been appropriate and maybe that would have alerted his family and a few others that something was more amiss than they seemed to realize. In some ways it might have helped Cho if something like suspension had happened earlier -- who knows? I do agree that involuntary hospitalization for a short period that scares and shames someone shitless and labels them and sends them back out (usually with mind altering medication) can be a total disaster; I've seen that firsthand. But I also think giving him one on one tuturing and putting up with his egregious violation of any academic standard was enabling behavior and also led to disaster. It just fed his furies is how I see it.

"a good dose of "reality," a confrontation with the law, is much more of a wake up call and a deterrent than therapeutic coddling"
When a person is psychotic or other--"wake up calls with cops" does not change the illness; in fact it scares them even more.
When a person is involuntarily committed, they are never inpatient without medications, and often released with a case manager appt. and meds. The system doesnt follow through. If in fact Cho was committed and released later--it does not mean this would never happen[his violent act]. Relying on psychiatric medications alone is what is wrong with the mental health system in America.
Jail is not the place for any one with mental illness, and guess what? state hospitals have several types of wards. Some are full of patients sent over from prison. Thats where they need to be; at least with ability to receive those medications that society wants to deem as the perfect solution;you know--treatment saves all and saves the world from crazies, just ask Fuller Torrey.

RE: school accomodations and tutors? there's a whole flip side to this discussion. Students [even in college level] have rights by law if they qualify for spec services. Some colleges give "blue cards" for ADD/ADHD, bipolar, and depression, that allow extra time on tests, and tutor time. This is not enabling it is a right to have an education without discrimination.
As far as WHAT he wrote ? I think it would be hard to suspend someone over something that can be called "freedom of expression".

I still stand my ground that the day this event happened--the school had 2 hours to lock the class doors and cancel classes for the day. When 2 people are actually shot, it is far more than a idle threat to the campus at that point. Hell, the guy was not apprehended, how could anyone not wonder if he could shoot again that day?

I actually think that V Tech handled the initial shootings appropriately. College campuses are small towns and react accordingly. If classes had been canceled I'm sure that Cho would have gone to a dorm or a local watering hole and killed there. Or he would have waited a day. I really don't think this guy was mentally ill. Just pissed and warped and out to make a statement. Sometimes bad shit happens and there's no way it could have been stopped and there's no real reason it happened.

I might go along with the psychosis theory if his actions were based on a faulty belief. But they weren't. From what I read, during his younger years people DID make fun of him. They made fun of the way he talked. He was supposedly bullied. The more bizarre he acted, the more people talked about him. He built up a lot of rage. That looks an awful lot like revenge.

Also, how is that one gets to continue taking classes after starting a fire in a dorm room? What does it take to get kicked out of school?

There are 2 reasons one can get kicked out of college. Rape or murder.

I guess I might offend some readers but I think that "blue card" stuff is for the birds. You give people steroids for the brain, or "math pills" as they used to be called, in the form of stimulants, and then also give them extra time? All on the basis of some bogus diagnosis that has no basis in science. I read a book on ADD/ADHD once and the way the docs finally could tell whether someone had it or not was if the medications worked. I kid you not. I really do not think all this special accomodation is a good idea long term for anyone, mentally ill or not. I also still do not think writing pornography and X rated violence should be allowed as credit worthy work towards getting a degree in higher education.

My 24 year old properly diagnosed bipolar disorder, who one year ago was slicing her arms, and attempted suicide; is now successfully able to call me as she did yesterday and tell me she got an "A" on a test; and just completed all credits for her minor. The University has supported her, not discriminated against her for having mental illness. She has a blue card. Because of that card she is able to have some extended reading time, etc. she is not getting a free-ride, or out of assignments. If it was not for this small accomodation, she would have not succeeded in several classes.
This is what I would like to see ALL Universities do. My daughter lives 2 states away from me, and she was not told to go home, or quit college because she is bipolar, and spent a week in a psych ward. Instead she was encouraged to fight the battle, and succeed.
She will have a University degree and one that is well-deserved. Unless one lives with the severe depression that can accompany bipolar disorder, one can hardly imagine the pure human determination it takes to get a degree from college.
Thank God for that University and for that blue card. I know this is one University where mental health discrimination does not reside.

Sara,
This is why I am speaking in front of a school board this week. There are laws that are in place so people can have education in this country. The law includes more than Down's Syndrome or Autistic kids, it includes kids and adults with mental illness. I teach kids with every aspect of the spectrum, from mental illness to Down's--and I can tell you it is a real joy to see them learn and receive an education like everyone else.

Wrightlaw

Harbor House Law Press

Okay, thanks for the input. I'm glad to hear about these success stories.

Sara, I do hope you know I speak with great respect for you.

I just wanted to add, so possibly anyone else in college who has mental illness is reading; that just today, my 24 yr. old called me and told me she is part of a new college age bipolar support group, and one young man was worried about failing, due to not being able to keep up--and they are helping him get a blue card. Ironically I got that voicemail this afternoon after posting about blue cards.

I'm just really happy that these kids are not suffering a negative consequence from being bipolar and in college.