"Virginia, for one, requires that someone be "imminently" dangerous before they can be involuntarily treated. In effect, that means that you have to be either trying to kill your psychiatrist or trying to kill yourself in front of your psychiatrist"

You know Torrey that is a scare tactic and false. Talk about over the top. Clearly he is trying to alarm the public, and for someone that is backed by NAMI we should all be concerned when this guy gets any media attention.

Just the damn title of the article Help the Ill before they Kill , and "episodes such as we observed this week will continue to occur with shocking regularity" are all enough to make me want to show up to his next fundraiser for NAMI with a t shirt that says "Bipolar off meds" and sit in the front row.

WTF is this guy?
I'm fuming...and in the middle of a little something, dunno where I'm going with it; but oh I'm coming with you to that event, get me a t-shirt. I need to calm down, read some things by this person and wonder what hole I've been in for the past few years to not have heard of him. BBL

Oh, geez. I didn't notice the title when I read the article earlier. "Help the Ill Before They Kill." Excuse me while I go throw up.

Luckily, I already started to entertain myself with some T-shirt-making the other day.

I think we as a community can get mad, but its better to shove evidence down their throats. When they do the studies that look at the number of mentally ill offenders in the corrections system... who can tell me what they do to get the number UP as HIGH AS POSSIBLE so they can write feces like this guy.

OK... I will tell you. They include SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS IN THE COUNT. Check it out folks. So, DUH. How many people are in jail for pot, heroin, cocaine or meth? Millions? Instead of drug treatment we have the war AGAINST DRUG TREATMENT.

I get very upset when I am asked to draw this kind of conclusion. If you look at the rates of Axis 1 illness, it IS elevated in prison, more due to politics and lack of resources for people with mental illnesses, than due to people with psychiatric symptoms committing more crimes.

MOST of the crimes that are committed by those with mental illnesses are those minor misdemeanors like trespassing or peeing in public. If you look at violent crime, the rate is actually not much higher at all between those with and without a lifetime psychiatric illness. This is not the case for personality disorders, which are much higher in correctional institutions than in the community at large.

In my strange mind, anyone who does a crime like Virginia Tech IS crazy!! We don't need a label to tell us that. What is more interesting to me, is what can we do to help young people like Cho? Many kids have these types of problems, which are largely ignored, until person meets authority figure.

I have no answers yet, given the U.S. health care system and educational system's systematic denial of mental illness's parity with physical illness.

Thanks FS, for a wonderful post as usual.

Love and Peace,
BK

D- and others--I paid 10 bucks to see this guy speak at a NAMI supported evening who-ha. Philip was too stubborn to go. [well you were]. I took notes. I stopped at a gas station after and bought a bottle of cheap wine.This was unbelievable brainwashing at it's best that night.The guy gave me the creeps. The notes are here, in this post,Fuller Torrey In Seattle.

I sat in the back and could hardly write fast enough.

Dear Philip,
I have to take issue with your statement that you are not making any impact whatsoever. I just don't believe this. Not just because you're reaching me, a very receptive individual, but because I see your blog splashed around all over in all the groups and listservs I'm involved in. This included a very conservative, Torrey supporting group I was involved with for awhile. I was trying to be a sane voice among the crazed--I've since disassociated myself from that group, but when your blog was mentioned there there were positive comments made even among that group. I certainly gave a big plug for you while still part of the group.

The blog, if it continues, will have an accumulative effect. There are thousands of people craving the information you offer here.

Not that it will necessarily change your mind, since it took so long, but my husband has a blog that he plugged away at for 5 years--up to 12 hours a day--he was finally offered a job for his efforts. I realize you may not have that kind of time if you need money now to survive, but adding advertisements could take the edge off. You are dealing with a hot topic--I can't imagine that eventually you won't be offered something.

And you can also do fund-raisers. My husband did that intermittently over the years he was not making an income and we did get some revenue that way. I know I would happily make a donation to you and I don't doubt that many of your readers will too. Give it a try. We want you here. Try asking for regular monthly donations--set it up to automatically charge a card once a month through paypal. Not everyone, including me, may have the means to do that, but some of us I'm sure do. And if you do intermittent fund-raisers as well the rest of us will chip in at those times.

I know you have to do what makes sense to you. You have to pay the rent and feed yourself. Whatever you decide to do I wish you the best.

Gulp. It seems that every time someone talks about people with the most serious forms of mental illness, that all the so-called advocates want to see him swept under the carpet. As another blogger said, "It is violence by the minority that tars the majority" Torrey is right.

I've actually never heard anyone in mainstream media where the general public gets the news-- sweep Torrey under any rug. Most of us dwell underneath that rug. I seriously would like to know which so-called advocate has been caught on video/or CNN having airtime or articles printed in papers, saying anything about Torrey. I am fascinated by this comment. If the blogosphere is that influential, then I say "blog on"! advocates.