Forget paranoid psychosis. I'm not convinced there was any active psychotic process going on in when he did this. And his crime was so "brilliantly" pulled off, almost like a trained assassin, a spy, a Special Forces soldier, or a hit man. In all of those occupations, psychosis is not permitted, as it does not allow you to pull off your very difficult job. I think he was psychotic in November 2005 or so, maybe. Clearly he's a paranoid personality disorder dx. That goes without saying. But it's no delusion to hate the mean world and blame the cold cruel world for all of your misery. It's not healthy thinking, but there is NO delusion going on there. A paranoid delusion looks totally different. You have to specifically believe that certain others are undertaking persecutory actions towards you (which you identify), actions which are not even taking place. That's paranoid psychosis.

And it's really tiresome to deal with this notion that "anyone who shoots 60 people for no good reason must be psychotic". Look it up in the DSM and see where it says "shooting 60 people for no good reason" under the definition of psychosis. Forget it. Maybe he's just angry, mean or evil, or a combination.

ß-Casomorphin Induces Fos-Like Immunoreactivity in Discrete Brain Regions Relevant to Schizophrenia and Autism

Asperger's was the first thing I thought when I started reading about the not talking, and selective mustism, and being smart. There is a wide spectrum so its important to note that not all, in fact rarely do Asperger's get this type of attention. Though it is quite common to medicate some autistic people due to violent outbursts, and Risperdal is the common med used for that.
I've also spoken in length to several medical professionals who say "smart and psychotic is not a good combination." [and it exists].

I have also mentioned on this blog before that P.D.D.-Aspergers is commonly replacing the old Childhood Bipolar Disorder dx given to many kids in the last 10 years. I've seen it happen several times.[it happened to my daughter].

This may be hard for anyone to understand, but there are some people who have "something of everything" and are brilliantly able to plan and calculate, speak when needed though considered silent, and smart psychotics. I am speaking from experience and discussion with many medical teams.

Its ironic that I agree with both Furious Seasons and Robert in the above comment. I guess I will add my 2 cents.

I am not an MD, but I am a PhD in psychology and I do the computer programming behind labeling people with strict DSM-4R diagnoses for medical billing and research. I am not saying this is right, it is just what I do for money.

I would have to agree with FS, that its all personality here. Asperger's or another personality disorder, say schizo-typical PERSONALITY, not axis 1 disorder. There is a big difference. People with Schizotypical personality tend to be very high functioning in all areas, except the one that is the focus of the illness... say shoes, or sand, or your ex-girlfriend.

I would say that Cho probably has Psychosis NOS,there is no (paranoia NOS diagnosis :) ) which is the garbage term MDs use, for individuals with psychotic symptoms who don't make criteria for schizophrenia, schizoaffective, or manic disorders. Or even the other mood disorders. I just don't think he made criteria

Its all really water under the bridge, except for the reactionary legislative knee jerk, that is so astutely mentioned by FS.

Peace and Love,

Dr. BK

"His mother used to pray that God would transform her child". Don't you feel the love there?

I want to know what medications they put him on in college that backfired because he was Aspie and not the diagnosis they gave him with the quick-fix happy pill.

Forgive me if you've already covered this angle but, I've come across a couple of reports now noting that a large proportion of the shooters who have horrified the masses with their actions over the past several years were on psychiatric medications, reputedly, including Cho.




I don't want to dismiss or minimize the horror of Cho's actions, but I have to wonder what is going on when so many of these kids are found to be on psychiatric drugs, notably anti-depressants...

- March 21, 2005: Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minnesota: 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise, reportedly under the influence of the antidepressant Prozac, went on a shooting rampage at home and at his school, killing nine people and wounding five before committing suicide.

- April 10, 2001: Wahluke, Washington: 16-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to his high school, and held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage while on a high dose of the antidepressant Effexor.

- March 22, 2001: El Cajon, California: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman was on two antidepressants, Effexor and Celexa, when he opened fire at his California high school wounding five.

- March 7, 2000: Williamsport, Pennsylvania: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was on the antidepressant Prozac when she blasted away at fellow students in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, wounding one.

- May 20, 1999: Conyers, Georgia: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with a mix of antidepressants when he opened fire on and wounded 6 of his classmates.

- April 20, 1999: Columbine, Colorado: 18-year-old Eric Harris was on the antidepressant Luvox when he and his partner Dylan Klebold killed 12 classmates and a teacher and wounded 23 others before taking their own lives in the bloodiest school massacre in history. The coroner confirmed that the antidepressant was in his system through toxicology reports while Dylan Klebold’s autopsy was never made public. Harris and Klebold underwent "anger management" and "death education" classes.

- April 16, 1999: Notus, Idaho: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school narrowly missing students; he was taking a mix of antidepressants.

- May 21, 1998: Springfield, Oregon: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his own parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 22. Kinkel had been on Prozac. Kinkel also underwent "anger management" classes.

Source: http://rodeo.cincinnati.com/getlocal/gpstory.aspx?id=100049&sid=111199

And here's an unrelated letter from a lawyer who lists 10 shooters, not 8. He also notes that these drugs have been recognized as producing both suicidal and homicidal tendencies: http://www.thejabberwock.org/blog/gonz1.pdf

Yet another article that addresses some of these issues: Virginia Tech Massacre Calls for Full Fact-Gathering: http://ahrp.blogspot.com/search/label/School%20Shootings

This article is exactly what everyone needs to read, so I am linking it up here--take the time to read it. Psychiatric medications have psychiatric side effects; this is well documented in the information fact sheets that are available from pharmacists as well as online. There are more side effects to these meds than "weight gain" or "diabetes".

Thanks to Spiritual Emergency for this post.

Another School Shooter, Another Psychiatric Drug?

Aspergers and Autism is a complexity on its own; and no medication can treat it, or cure it.
Some doctors attempt to treat manifestations of autism, such as outbursts, violent behaviors, meltdowns--with psychiatric medications. Go back to the entry Philip posted about a family who uses a cattle electric shock treatment for their autistic son who repeatedly self-injures. Parents want to continue shock treatment on autistic son. Sometimes, autism and mental illness are part of a person's fate. The complexity of both issues, reaches far beyond the CNN pissing matches.
03-30-2007 Media Madness.

Asperger Syndrome OASIS

If one wants to further personal education regarding Asperger Syndrome then please read that link. It is a complex world in which we reside, and it often holds no answer for tragic situations.
This is not my blog--but I must comment where I see fit.
Thanks for the place to do this.

Its an interesting argument about the psychiatric meds and the killer kids. It seems very tautological to me. Kids who WOULD kill others, seem to me to be very in need of immediate psychiatric attention. So is it any surprise, that someone has picked up on this before the tragic events?

I think that screening for depression and anxiety, in attempts to intervene with peer counseling, trained counselers, destigmatizing organizations and support in the educational environs.. from to K to BA. would be great

Cheers

Great links, Stephany.



Its an interesting argument about the psychiatric meds and the killer kids. It seems very tautological to me. Kids who WOULD kill others, seem to me to be very in need of immediate psychiatric attention. So is it any surprise, that someone has picked up on this before the tragic events?



Valid point. My concern is that the inquiry ends there.



Clearly, there are a combination of factors that created this situation and Cho was only one of them: the gun was too easy to get, the university response was complacent, and there is a long history of Cho being bullied and taunted by some of his peers, thus contributing to his rage and isolation.



Nonetheless, the fact of the matter is that Cho -- like a number of other school shooters -- was on psychiatric medications at the time that he committed these acts of violence. Is this merely tautological or is it a factor that's contributing to kids killing kids?

Many people are amazed that no-one managed to get Cho into counselling or therapy. As a mental health professional who works with offenders in Australia, I can comment on this. People need to want to be in counselling. When I see young offenders, they are extremely resistant to any help at all. They come to see me when Probation and Parole order them to do so. Some of them forget appointments, come in late, tell me they don't talk to anyone, tell me that they don't want to change anything, they can manage on their own, they don't need any help, they are fine, etc, etc. I can just imagine what happened when the judge ordered Cho to get out-patient treatment. Even if he could afford it, he most probably didn't turn up a few times and the therapist gave up making appointments for him. You simply cannot force a person to participate in counselling. You can hold them down and inject them with anti-psychotic medication but that was clearly not appropriate in this case. I keep doing this work because sometimes you find someone who is willing to accept help and you hope that this will prevent at least one crime.