April 30, 2007

That Guy: A Definition Of Psychosis

A bit of housekeeping here. In the wake of the Cho shooting, there was much discussion on this blog, the wider blogosphere and the media about psychosis (which turned into a short hand for schizophrenia). At times, including in comments on this site, there seemed to be a lot of confusion over what psychosis is. Here's the Wikipedia entry on psychosis. The basic definition is:

1. Hallucinations.

2. Delusions and paranoia.

3. Thought disorder.

4. Lack of insight.

Cho certainly exhibited delusions, paranoia, thought disorder and a complete lack of insight. I am less clear from the information that's out there that he suffered from hallucinations (yes, he had a made-up girlfriend from space and said some crazy things about Vladimir Putin, but were those as a result of delusions or hallucinations?). Clinically, it's still not clear what was driving Cho. Autism? Asperger's? Schizophrenia? Depression? As I noted recently, my hunches center on psychosis NOS and Asperger's. I hope we do get an answer someday, a view well-articulated in this New York Times op-ed last week.

Blogger Robert Lindsay has done an excellent job of beating down the schizophrenia dx, although he denies that Cho was psychotic (two posts here and here). I think he was, but like Lindsay I am not convinced of the Fuller Torrey line that Cho was a classic paranoid schizophrenic.

Sadly, Lindsay mischaracterizes this blog as being "a good but anti-psychiatry-oriented blog (in other words, a typical mental health "consumer" blog)." Um, Bob, not true. But I knew that sooner or later someone would try and hang the anti-psychiatry albatross around my neck.

But if being for truth in mental health (such as an end to cooked research data and full-disclosure about potential injuries suffered on atypicals) and transparency in how the system is run (like not allowing Big Pharma and its minions to call all the shots) counts as "anti" behavior, then go find me a sea bird.

Posted by Philip Dawdy at April 30, 2007 12:05 AM
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Comments

Hi, I fixed the article and removed the text in question as per your criticisms.

Paranoia is not a psychotic symptom. There are varying degrees of paranoia, which differ in terms of intensity from obsessional to overvalued ideas to ideas of reference all the way to delusions. Whether or not paranoia is a delusion has to do with the intensity of belief and frankly the specificity of the belief. Thought disorder in Cho I felt was due to autism. Thought disorder in psychosis usually refers to schizophrenia and has a characteristic look - which Cho lacked. It is also present in mania, but it looks a lot different - Cho did not have manic thought disorder. It's not necessarily present in other types of psychosis at all. FWIW, autistics have their own type of thought disorder. I'm with you on being cynical about p-docs (drug pushers) and drug companies (drug cartels). Thing is, only drugs have worked for me...

Posted by: Robert Lindsay at April 30, 2007 01:13 AM

I am sorry, Robert, but I am going to disagree with you about the paranoia. Paranoia can be a symptom of psychosis. It can take the form of a delusion (ok then in that case, not psychosis) like in delirium, a thought insertion (psychosis), thought content (psychosis), hallucination both visual and/or auditory (psychosis), or paranoid thinking. Paranoid thinking DOES NOT NECESSARILY IMPLY PSYCHOSIS, and it can be a symptom of many other disorders from personality (paranoid personality to hypomania, mania and substance induced disorders - think amphetamine/stimulant intoxication.

I think that paranoia is NOT only a symptom of psychosis and schizophrenia. Maybe that is what you meant after all. If so, then we are in agreement.

Cheers...
Dr. BK

Posted by: Dr. Black Kitty at April 30, 2007 04:23 AM

You just got "Oppositional Defiant Disorder".

David Rovics made a blues grass song of it, give it 30 seconds if you listen to it. The begining doesn't flow too well, but the chorus is good.
http://www.archive.org/download/David_Rovics_11-28-2006_1000_Fryd_Alborg/dr2006-11-28d1t14_64kb.mp3

Oppositional Defiance Disorder
David Rovics

Alex is a member of my record label
Teenager though he is
He joined the Ever Reviled Records collective
And the indy music biz
Well his parents didn't like such turns of events
So they sent off a couple of thugs
To bring him back to Utah, lock him up
And pump him full of drugs
They say he's got problems with authority
Yes this is what they claim
And their psychiatric analysis
Has even got a name

(Chorus)
Oppositional Defiance Disorder
I think I got it, too
Oppositional Defiance Disorder
He's sick and so are you

If you think George Bush is a moron
And Tony Blair's a liar
If you fantasize about setting
Your local Wal-Mart on fire
If you don't like Tom Brokaw
And you think he's full of it
And you feel that a Rush Limbaugh punching bag
Might be kinda fun to hit
If bombing other countries
Makes you feel appalled
You have got a problem
And this is what it's called

(Chorus)

If you think school is boring
And your teacher is a fool
If you don't like your congressman
And you called him a corporate tool
If you were not standing
To sing save the Queen
If you turned down hamburgers
And ate rice and beans
We've got a diagnosis
No matter whether you agree
Just do what the doctors tell you
And thank God for psychiatry

(Chorus)

Posted by: Mark(p.s.2) at April 30, 2007 08:53 AM

Better link with better audio quality song here to Oppositional Defiance Disorder David Rovics
http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?BandID=111310&content=lyrics&SongID=1122865

Posted by: Mark(p.s.2) at April 30, 2007 09:03 AM

I meant that paranoia is not a de facto psychotic symptom. Delusion is, pretty much. As you noted, paranoia can be present to varying degrees in many different disorders, and many paranoid people are not psychotic at all.

I still say, "the world is mean and cruel and I hate the world and I'm going to kill people" is not a delusion, it's just a point of view. A messed up POV, sure, but a POV nonetheless. It's basically a matter of opinion. He says the world is mean and cruel, you and me say it isn't. It's almost a philosophical matter.

I get tired of psychiatry always trying to extend its damn DSM into every nook and cranny of human existence, including matters of sociology, philosophy, etc.

Posted by: Robert Lindsay at April 30, 2007 03:16 PM

I 100% agree with there is a difference between a warped POV and psych dx.

I get tired of psychiatry always trying to extend its damn DSM into every nook and cranny of human existence, including matters of sociology, philosophy, etc.
Or you could also say that philosophy and sociology and theology extends themselves into psychiatry. All "soft" sciences trip all over themselves. Camus wrote some lovely words on suicide that I hold to be way more valuable than anything I've read in psychiatry/psychology. And vice versa.

Posted by: Chloe at April 30, 2007 08:15 PM

I almost think Camus' The Stranger explains this Cho guy about as well as anything else, you know?

Posted by: Robert Lindsay at April 30, 2007 09:58 PM

Regarding Cho, not only did he think the world was mean and cruel and therefore he ought to shoot it up, but also he blew his own brains out. I still say he was delusional to do this. He also dressed up for the occasion and produced a slew of videos and writings. I don't call this just having a POV about the world. I call it going mad and becoming seriously disconnected from reality (one way in which I define psychosis). As for the DSM I'm certainly not in favor of using that to explain anyone's behavior or worse to determine their "treatment" but that doesn't mean craziness, psychosis and madness aren't out there in spades.

Posted by: Sara at May 1, 2007 10:21 AM

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