January 04, 2007Snorting Seroquel, Dependence And SmokingThere is a remarkable letter to the editor in this month's American Journal of Psychiatry about Seroquel abuse in an Ohio prison, especially involving the snorting of crushed up tablets. In the joint, the atypical antipsychotic has earned the street name "quell." Here's much of the letter: "Quetiapine [Seroquel] is not a controlled substance and is not considered addictive. Yet there are several reports describing abuse among inmates in jails and prisons.... An earlier letter in the journal identifies the same problem in the Los Angeles County Jail. Several thoughts. Over the past year, one of the most popular search terms bringing people to this blog has been "snorting Seroquel." The term ranks up there with "Cymbalta problems," "Wayne Fenton" and "Zyprexa." Back in July a reader left a comment about Seroquel snorting and how this had once gone on with Thorazine back in the day, and the hits have been coming to that post ever since. That's just weird, and told me something was up in our culture. I guess we now know what that is. Second, we all know that Seroquel is regularly handed out to bipolars and depressives and people with anxiety in order to address insomnia, as opposed to the kind of underlying psychosis/mania issues you'd expect it to be used for. PCPs hand it out this way and so do psychiatrists. What I have noticed among friends who've been given Seroquel for sleep issues is that they end up, over a few months time, needing more and more of the drug in order to get an effect. Or, put another way, people keep complaining of problems with sleep despite taking, say, 300 mgs. of Seroquel and their doctor will keep upping the dose to get the desired effect. As a result, I have seen people with very mild bipolar disorder wind up taking 800 mgs. of Seroquel a day--that's roughly the same that a schizophrenic in a state hospital would get--and still they get no results, aside from putting on tons of weight. I have heard this from other readers of this blog as well. Third, I don't want to say those are the signs of dependence or addiction, but they are pretty darn consistent with what I know about chemical dependence. Seroquel has not been studied for dependence yet, but if people are jonesing for it in jail, then that tells you something. Ironically, AstraZeneca is now trialing Seroquel for damn near every DSM diagnosis under the sun, and is prominently testing it to prevent alcohol, cocaine and meth addiction. Fascinating dynamic. A Harvard researcher is testing it in four-year-olds. Which should tell you something. Fourth, in one case, a bipolar 2er I know ended up taking 800 mgs. of Seroquel a day and got to the point where they wound up projectile vomiting one night. So this person went to another doctor to get a second opinion. This doctor got this patient off the Seroquel promptly, convinced that it was "poisoning" the patient. This same doctor, who was initially enthusiastic about Seroquel, now tells me that he thinks it is "garbage" and rarely prescribes it. I have written about my own experiences with Seroquel many times on this blog. I do want to stress--for you readers from AstraZeneca's HQ--that I think the drug has its place in short-term treatment of bipolar disorder, etc., but that in long term use it is not a very good agent. This the drug that some want to turn into the next Lithium, the "Bipolar Pill"? Fifth, the situation in prisons goes to show you what happens when prison systems and public health nazis take away inmates' cigarettes in the name of public health. Needing some kind of dopamine-stroking relaxant they then turn to an antipsychotic. Yep, that's sure helping the public's health. Sixth, in 2004, Western State Hospital here in Washington State took away psych patients' rights to smoke cigarettes outdoors on their 30-minute a day breaks from the wards. The hospital's CEO told me it was for the patients' "own good." I told him that he was taking away one of the patients' few pleasures and that I considered it mean, given the fact that the patients are mostly schizophrenics who are so doped up that whatever visceral joy they get from smoking ought to be granted to them in the name of their psychological health. In 2005, WSH restored patients' smoking rights. That also tells you something. Posted by Philip Dawdy at January 4, 2007 12:01 AM
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I find it interesting that there is a push toward smoke free psych facilities because smoking is harmful to the patient's health, yet some psychiatrists think nothing of prescribing medications that cause obesity and diabetes. Ironic. It's very important that doctors take the weight gain side effect more seriously. I was prescribed Seroquel to help with sleep. I refused to take it because of the fear of weight gain. Again, if a patient decides against taking a medication then they're labeled non compliant with treatment. For me, gaining a bunch of weight which I knew put me at a much higher risk of heart disease and diabetes was not worth it. High risk of weight gain is a serious quality of life issue, as well. Patients need to have that information and decide for themselves if the risk is worth it. For me it wasn't. Posted by: Lisa at January 4, 2007 06:55 AM#2 & #4-my family member ramped up on 800mg of Seroquel leaving her vomiting and awake for over 7 days. The doctor would not hear my or the nurse's pleas to lower her dose. In the end, doc actually said "though I do not believe she is suffering." Right on doc, keep thinking you are the doctor and take some of that shit and see what happens to YOU. #6-I am pretty sure it was patient revolt that got the smoke breaks back at Western. The staff asks a person if they are agitated if they need a smoke.This tells us something.Smoking also calms a schizophrenic mind.Thus the study being done regarding creating a new med giving the same effect as a smoke. By 5pm inside Western, violent fist-fights break out if staff announces "short-staffed tonight" so smoke break is delayed. Smoking for inpatients is what you say it is, a small reprieve, a tiny pleasure in a confined and locked down world they reside. I am sure the CEO would be shocked to know that not only did I park in his parking space, that I (a visitor) accompanied staff outdoors so the patients would calm down and get their smoking time in. Most hospitals call these timed breaks throughout the day "Environmental Outtings". Posted by: Stephany at January 4, 2007 09:17 AM I have bipolar 2, and take a small dose of seroquel to control associated anxiety (which also eliminates the insomnia I would otherwise experience). I am incredibly grateful that such a drug is available as the others I tried before it did not help. Posted by: mad social scientist at January 4, 2007 03:58 PMI want to be clear that I'm not arguing that any meds should be taken of the market. Hell, it wouldn't matter to me if Fen-Phen were still on the market as long people are aware (and "aware" is the key word here) that they're risking heart valve damage if they take it. There would still, even with the information available, be people willing to accept that risk. That's fine with me. What I am advocating is drug companies being HONEST about side effects that present a significant health risk to the patient and doctors being open and honest about those side effects with their patients. We have a right to know that information. I understand that with all drugs there is some risk. However, if there is a significant risk of a bad side effect like weight gain, TD, liver failure (thinking of Serzone....or Tylenol for that matter), etc. then it needs to be talked about. I think that what is so great about having these discussions is that it's a reminder to the public that we're all individuals. It's important that both the positive and negative views are heard. I was on another website and we were having a similar discussion. One woman said that while she disliked the fact that she was now obese and diabetic her life was still better than it was before. For her, it was the right decision. I respect that. Posted by: Lisa at January 4, 2007 10:46 PMI just started back on Seroquel 25mgs (I'm a lightweight). I resisted taking this for several weeks because I had taken it long term over a year ago. Right now its just going to be a silver bullet to kill my insomnia and mania...we hope. But good lord, its just like I remember! Instead of my mind being a sharp blade, most of the day it feels like a rusty butter knife. I feel thick in the head. I hate that. I can't understand why anyone would want to do that for sport. Posted by: Priscilla at January 5, 2007 07:50 PMMy wife and I both smoke because it is the only form of anxiety medication that is user-controlled. I should point out that the majority of MH patients smoke. I'll testify that during a period of two years when I did not smoke, my effective sanity - that is to say, my liklihood of harming others or harming myself - was affected. Considering that alternate medications have even worse risks associated with them than do cigarettes, and/or can be prescribed at lower dosages when patients smoke, I think you'd have to be crazy to restrict patient smoking. In prisons, I think the term is more along the lines of "suicidally stupid." As a prison guard, I'd consider side-steam smoke to be an entirely acceptable risk - given the alternative. You can't suck violence out of an area with a good ventelation system.... Posted by: Bob King at January 6, 2007 07:21 AMI take full responsibility for my actions, I have bp 2 and it just so happens I despise smoking,and tobacco products with a passion.I have gone through hell and back,I'm happy that i never got hooked on nicotine. Oddly enough my medication is enough. 400mg seroquel 900mg lithium. If it allows people to calm down or ease their anxiety, then thats something that will never change. Posted by: Julie at January 7, 2007 12:13 AMI have taken Seroquel daily for over four years since being correctly diagnosed as Bipolar-III at age 24. Before that, they thought it was unipolar major depression and the ridiculous cocktails of antidepressants triggered a huge mixed manic nightmare. Anyway...I'm currently at 100mg (along with 200mg of Lamictal) at bedtime, although my dosage as been as high as 300mg each of Seroquel and Lamictal. For me, Seroquel has been a godsend for my mood and overall health. I was able to get a full-time job and support myself entirely, whereas before I was so incapacitated that I would have been homeless if not for my parents. Unfortunately, the meds have made me gain a lot of weight, which sucks. But the Seroquel stabilizes my mood and takes away the irritation. As a bonus, it always knocks me out, which is bliss for someone who had persistent insomnia for years. Even now that I've lowered my dose to 100mg, I still get the blissful sleep that I need. A full 8 hours a night! Sometimes more on weekends! It's awesome. I had my pdoc up my dosage when I was having difficulty with intrusive thoughts, anxiety, irritability, and agitation. The weight gain and difficulty awakening in the morning was my primary concern, so when my mood evened out and stayed there, we started tapering down my dose. I hope that someday I can be off the meds completely, because I want to have children eventually. We'll see how it goes. But I effing love Seroquel. After trying literally dozens of drugs, it's worked well for me. Posted by: linnea at February 9, 2007 11:24 PMI've been suffering from mental illness for 6 years, my doctors still haven't been able to put a name to what I have. I'm 21 now, I was incorrectly diagnosed as having depression when I was 15 until about 3 months ago. I've been hospitalized for suicide attempts, thoughts, and self-harm 7 times. As someone who takes 800mg Seroquel per day, I can only shout the benefits of this medication. I was previously prescribed a rediculous coctail of anti-depressants, benzodiazapines, typical anti-psychotics and Lithium/Depakote, which caused horrible side-effects ranging from vomiting, tremors, weight-gain, rapid cycling, and paradoxal effects such as rage. Since I switched doctors, I've been diagnosed manic and placed on Seroquel. My depression is improving by the day, I can now motivate myself to continue education, and also get a job, I am no longer suffering from anxiety attacks 2-3 times a day, and I sleep a full 7-9 hours without waking up 3 or 4 times a night. I have no hallucinations or weight gain side-effects (I used to weigh 215lbs on Zyprexa. I now weigh 180lbs.) I just feel normal, finally. Posted by: Daniel at February 10, 2007 09:07 PMI have had insomnia for years. My doctor, a pdoc who specializes in sleep disorder put me on 150mgs Seroquel, 25 mgs. Imiprine, and an Ambien at night. Most nights I still lay there wide awake. Nothing works for me, and I am running out of hope. When I first read about Seroquel, I thought finally, something that will let me sleep. No chance. I have gained 25lbs too since I sarted taking it in Dec. It would be worth it if I could count on it to make me sleep. Posted by: Bob at February 21, 2007 11:44 AMbeen taking seroquel for a few months now, i have been able to actually fall asleep which is fantastic. i have major depressive disorder, hell im depressed as i type, but thank god seroquel gets me to sleep. otherwise im on effexor, clonozopam, and adderal. wonderful little cocktail of shit i gotta take in order to maintain a somewhat complacent state of mind. i hope seroquel isnt a drug which you need more of to attain the same benefit. i took 25 mg and slept for 6 hours today, which was great, but then when i woke up i had to live life which sucked. but its time for bed now and i just took 25g and hopefully it will be able to knock me out like usual. sigh, dunno how much longer i can take this life. Posted by: alex at March 17, 2007 12:22 AMI started taking Seroquel in the Fall of 2006, for insomnia. At the 8 week mark of my personal "trial" of this medication; it stopped working for sleep, and I couldn't function in the mornings for the "fifth of whiskey head syndrome". The variation on dosages in all of the above posts is quite interesting to read; and also explains why it is so damn hard to find "what meds work for a person, what works for one may not for another." As far as Imipramine referred to in another post--that is an antidepressant, commonly used to treat children for bed-wetting. I am in the process of removing Seroquel, and the less the dose is, I SLEEP BETTER. I think one think is clear from reading here: We need something better for treatment of mental illness; the guessing game of what medication to use, has got to go. Posted by: Stephany at March 18, 2007 09:20 AMI've been skeptical of atypical medicines since I started getting treatment for Bipolar Disorder, and when my shrink suggested Seroquel for sleep, after having some bad experiences with Ambien, I decided to give it a try. I was horribly hungover after taking just 50mg, and had to wait a few hours before I could drive my car with confidence that I wasn't going to kill anyone. I can see why people are abusing it. It should definitely be scheduled. Posted by: Andy at April 21, 2007 11:25 PMLast year when I was uping my dosage of Suzie-Q I noticed that around the same time each night when I was to take my dosage I would start to crave it. I am now on 300mg and it has help me so much. But I feel addicted to it. I tell my doctor it is the addiction of the 21st century. I am concerned I will never be normal without this medication. Posted by: Frank at April 24, 2007 03:48 PMi love seroquel. i take 50mg during the day, and 100mg at night. i take other anxiety drugs such as gabapentin and celexa. but seroquel seems to be my favorite. ill take anything that helps. Posted by: Bill at May 4, 2007 07:56 PM |
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