January 03, 2007

Link Between Suicidal Ideation And Prozac Is Seen

Hot off the presses is a research study asserting that 14 percent of patients in the study who did not have suicidal ideation at the beginning of the study wound up with suicidal ideation after being given 20 mgs. of Prozac. "Relatively common" in the authors' estimation. The study lasted 12 weeks and involved 414 patients, 59 of whom reported suicidal ideation during the study. That's a very high percentage and I am curious as to whether any of this data was reflected in the FDA's database which was recently used by an FDA advisory panel when it recommended to the agency that it expand black box warnings on anti-depressants to include young adults in addition to the earlier warning for children and some teens. If it was available, I wonder what they made of it or whether it was blended into other analyses. And so on.

I hope to soon get a full copy of the study. Two Eli Lilly employees are listed as co-authors, so you know this study was bird-dogged all to heck and back. It was likely a Lilly funded study as well. It'll be interesting to see if there is much reaction to this study.

Nail meet coffin. At least until the next study on links between suicide/suicidality and anti-depressants comes out.

One interesting bit in the abstract: "Whether prophylaxis against or aggressive treatment of adverse events can decrease emergence of SI merits further study."

So what they are saying, if I read between the lines correctly, is that they'd like to take a drug that is linked to a high degree of suicidal ideation and use, oh I don't know, an atypical antipsychotic as "aggressive treatment" and "prophylaxis" against the ideation caused by first drug while still giving the patients the first drug and with all the inherent side effects of the second drug. I am pretty sure that's what they are saying. I'll have to find out.

Posted by Philip Dawdy at January 3, 2007 01:46 AM
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What the drug does is, is make you feel a certain way(bad). It does not, and can not make you have thoughts of suicide, if it can create your thoughts, why not murder as well? or on the positive side, make you a doctor.

Posted by: Mark at January 3, 2007 05:02 AM

I was 43 year's old with severe suicidal ideations from being placed on 40mg. of Prozac.

A brain altering chemical that was carelessly prescribed by a general practice Doctor along with these words: " Take this so that things will just roll off of your back."
I was under stress from moving.That's all. This was added to a cocktail that then consisted of large doses of Xanax, and Trazedone and Zyprexa. The more I complained of inability to concentrate the general doc increased dosages on all of the medications. This deadly cocktail of medication was given to me without a psychiatric screening for mental illness. The Zyprexa were free samples. What was this doctor thinking? I was not diagnosed bipolar. He never even asked me one psychiatric question. This is what is happening to many Americans. Prozac was given to a friend of mine for "hot flashes". Last I heard, Prozac was not a hormone replacement therapy medication.
This twisted cocktail of a so-called "stress-buster" left me standing on the roof of my car screaming I want to kill myself. In public, in pouring rain.
Could it be, that the action on my part, to go to a doctor when I was feeling stressed was simply falling prey to the fix-it now syndrome? the doc could have easily told me to take a yoga class, take a walk, or sign up for DBT group, even get a massage or facial to help myself unwind. But he is in the business of curing what ails people with medication. Could it be, that the American way of medicating whatever ails you is not the best way after all?
I hope to see more about this in a "Pimping for Prozac" series. It is the first wonder drug that doctors used for what ever ailed millions of Americans.

Posted by: Stephany at January 3, 2007 08:52 AM

Old news to the Internet depression community. The problem with clinical depression is that you are too depressed to support suicidal idiation. Once you start coming out of the depression, then you pass through a period of risk. This was true long before the latest generations of antidepressants according to the wisdom of the Internet, and was an unexpected reality that damn near killed me.

It's quite possible to function in a state of profound clinical depression. You can get used to it. Indeed, I had no idea I was "depressed." I was prescribed a medication for restless legs that had antidepressant features. Good old Sinequan.

I was spitting up charcoal in an ER within six months, but aside from that, feeling much better, thank you.

Posted by: Bob King at January 3, 2007 10:36 AM

"Aggressive treatment" or "prophylaxis" against SI when commencing treatment with an SSRI has traditionally meant prescribing a concomitant sedative, such as a benzodiazepine, like ativan or xanax, or some other tranquilizer in the early weeks of treatment. (This, of course, could create its own set of problems.) In the late 80's, early 90's, the German regulators wanted to insist on a warning to prescribe a concomitant sedative at the commencement of treatment with Prozac but Lilly managed to worm their way out of this, thinking (rightly I'm sure) that it might put people off. It did slow down approval in Germany for quite some time but not indefinitely. The internal documents from Lilly that have since been made public about their fear of the suicide issue and how to manage it are very damning. They're out there on the net somewhere. Or read The Power to Harm by John Cornwell about the Wesbecker trial in which Lilly engaged in a pretty darn massive cover-up about their drug Prozac and its possible link to violent behavior. The story of those docs are in there with some good quotes.

Posted by: Sara at January 3, 2007 10:54 AM

sadly this is old news to me as well. i had poor experiences on prozac and paxil which i'll write about sometime.

Posted by: Dawdy at January 3, 2007 12:32 PM

Trying not to over-comment here but...
This is how old news Prozac is to me: May 1989. General Practice doc dx me with the "yuppie flu", while ruling out Lupus. He said he had a new med that could help me feel better, and it was called Prozac. I declined the med and bought a bottle of vitamins.

Posted by: Stephany at January 3, 2007 08:36 PM

Bob King, in his response, is describing the so-called “rollback” phenomenon, aka “energizing”. As far as I’m concerned this is a load of hogwash as far as what really happens when someone reacts adversely to an SSRI. It is a cliché that the drug companies push relentlessly in their effort to blame the victim for suicide rather than the drug. This phenomenon, if it exists at all, may occur in an unmedicated depression. Some people who finally make their decision to die and a plan to do so may experience a little burst of energy and relief at that point and actually appear happy or relaxed right before the end. This has nothing whatsoever to do with what happens on an SSRI like Prozac, Paxil or Zoloft. The people who kill themselves on these drugs don’t feel better. Instead they experience an intense “activation” – an agitation that is so extreme they can’t sit still and they are terrified. It’s drug induced and has a name – akathisia. Maybe it’s caused by too much serotonin – certainly it is some acute and unnatural imbalance of neurotransmitters that leads to all sorts of uncharacteristic and bizarre thinking. It can happen to anyone who’s given an SSRI for any reason, not just depression. It’s most likely to happen when the dose is too large for the person in question – perhaps they can’t metabolize it properly. One of the more reassuring things that happened at the last FDA hearing on antidepressants was that the committee actually started referring to “activation” instead of energizing. This seems like a subtle distinction but it’s actually quite profound.

Posted by: Sara at January 3, 2007 09:21 PM

I don't think the one rules out the other, Sara. As I said, this is old news - predating the wide distribution of Prozac, much less safer drugs like Paxil, which I use.

I tried Prozac myself - and suffered exactly the sort of side-effects you mention, along with almost every other "discontinue immediately" level side effects in the product monograph - and at a low dosage according to the dosage charts.

Fortunately, I was braced for the possiblity of side effects, including chemically-induced mental ones and I had no problem simply stopping the drug, as I was advised to do at the first sign of adverse side effects.

Simply knowing that a depression or anxiety state is drug induced and will go away is an immense step to not freaking out about it. if you don't know, and have every reason to believe it's happening IN SPITE OF mediation, well, bad things are predictable.

Problems arise when the person taking the drug is not taken seriously about the severity of such effects, as is all to often true in the MH area, or when they are carelelessly prescribed by some Dr. Feelgood.

Fortunately, I have a general practitioner who trusts me to know my own mind and regulate my meds accordingly, in consultation with him, of course. He doesn't have a sheepskin that gets in the way of admitting he knows less of my personal reality than I do.

As a rule of thumb, it's a great idea to listen to your pharmicist about all possible drug interactions. It is actually their job to second-guess your doctor and advise you as to possible side effects that you should be aware of, especially in combination.

Posted by: Bob King at January 6, 2007 07:04 AM

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